STAKES 1 1/16 Dirt 350K Tampa Bay Derby G2 Past Performances

[ageecee]

[quote="TJ"][quote="ageecee"]Another horse with a front running style for the Derby. Probably a throw out for me.[/quote]
Hi agee,
It may interest you to know Verrazano has been purchased by Renpher Stable and will be in the capable hands of Mr. Oliva:>) TJ[/quote]





TJ that is funny chit i swear i started laughing when i read that.

I think Fatty Bob can only purchase Egg McMuffins from McDonalds at this point in time. His partners are bailing faster that the Titanic sinking.

[TJ]

Omega Star is the Candy Ride colt.

Hi Dub,
Missed this... I was writing you when you sent this:>) Looking forward to your picks in the Wood...Seeya, TJ

[TJ]

Another horse with a front running style for the Derby. Probably a throw out for me.

Hi agee,
It may interest you to know Verrazano has been purchased by Renpher Stable and will be in the capable hands of Mr. Oliva:>) TJ

TJ that is funny chit i swear i started laughing when i read that.

I think Fatty Bob can only purchase Egg McMuffins from McDonalds at this point in time. His partners are bailing faster that the Titanic sinking.

Hi agee,
Glad it made you laugh...to think he came up with PG Johnson is scary. TJ

[dublino]

Elnaawi another RAN sireline to add to the short list.

Half brother to To Honour and Serve, nice horse that always disappointed me in his results, I always felt he was more talented than he showed on the track.
I felt like he kept a bit to himself.

Omega Star you can always forgive a young horse a bad run, even a gelding.
(for what it's worth I don't think geldings should be allowed run in Derby or classic races)

[stancaris]

Zinn: Verrazano is similar to Bodemeister.

1. Both did not run as 2 year olds.
2. Both will have 4 starts before running in the Derby (my guess)
3. Both ran and won at a mile at age 3 in 1:34 and change.
4. Both are very fast work horses
5. Both were expensive yearlings: Bodemeister going for $260,000 and Verrazano going for $250,000.
6. Both colts achieved triple digit Beyer figs at 1 1/16 miles in Grade 2 stakes (San Felipe for Bodemeister and Tampa Bay Derby for Verrazano.
7. Both are front-running horses but it looks like Verrazano can be rated whereas Bode was a need the lead type.

Perhaps Verrazano is the better of these two colts because he never lost a race but only time will tell.

Here is a bit of a clinker: The last 5 Derby winners only made 2 starts at age 3 and Verrazano will probably have 4 starts.

Also, frontrunners usually do not win the roses. The last to do it was War Emblem in 2002.

Despite the above lets see what the big V does in his next start which will be critical in determining his chances in the run for the roses. If Todd decides to train him up to the Derby with no further races it just might be his undoing.

[dublino]

5. Both were expensive yearlings: Bodemeister going for $260,000 and Verrazano going for $250,000.

Also, frontrunners usually do not win the roses. The last to do it was War Emblem in 2002.

I wouldn't call $250,000 expensive average maybe.

I don't think Verrazano is a front runner his opposition has been vastly inferior that he has been left in the lead.

[TJ]

Elnaawi another RAN sireline to add to the short list.

Half brother to To Honour and Serve, nice horse that always disappointed me in his results, I always felt he was more talented than he showed on the track.
I felt like he kept a bit to himself.

Omega Star you can always forgive a young horse a bad run, even a gelding.
(for what it's worth I don't think geldings should be allowed run in Derby or classic races)

Hi Dub,
Elnaawi took that same leap of faith as Verrazano...it isn't easy to jump into the big time and fire. He ran a real good race running in a GR III for the first time in only his 3rd lifetime start and was in enough trouble to consider him a threat next time. I believe he should improve as the distance increases. Another out of that race is Siete de Oros who is in the capable hands of Ramon Preciado and doesn't chase dreams. He too was in trouble in the Gotham and I forgot to mention he will be running in the Wood.
If you don't learn how to forgive a young horses bad race...you would have thrown out Secretariat in the Derby:>) Omega has the Fusaichi Pegasus running in his veins....probably why he was gelded. TJ

[TJ]

Zinn: Verrazano is similar to Bodemeister.

1. Both did not run as 2 year olds.
2. Both will have 4 starts before running in the Derby (my guess)
3. Both ran and won at a mile at age 3 in 1:34 and change.
4. Both are very fast work horses
5. Both were expensive yearlings: Bodemeister going for $260,000 and Verrazano going for $250,000.
6. Both colts achieved triple digit Beyer figs at 1 1/16 miles in Grade 2 stakes (San Felipe for Bodemeister and Tampa Bay Derby for Verrazano.
7. Both are front-running horses but it looks like Verrazano can be rated whereas Bode was a need the lead type.

Perhaps Verrazano is the better of these two colts because he never lost a race but only time will tell.

Here is a bit of a clinker: The last 5 Derby winners only made 2 starts at age 3 and Verrazano will probably have 4 starts.

Also, frontrunners usually do not win the roses. The last to do it was War Emblem in 2002.

Despite the above lets see what the big V does in his next start which will be critical in determining his chances in the run for the roses. If Todd decides to train him up to the Derby with no further races it just might be his undoing.

Hi Stan,
He will race again....either the Wood, Florida Derby or Arkansas Derby in order of Hot Toddy's preference. If he doesn't make any of these, you are correct...he will be a throw out in the Derby because it will mean he isn't right. TJ

[zinn21]

Stan, Bode was a stone cold front runner. I think this horse will relax and sit off horses. He has such an efficient stride and does it so easily-his cruising speed so very high; he finds himself on the lead before he knows it. But he should catch some speedier types in his next start that will allow him to settle. The Derby will be no problem as half the horses with no shot will be gunning to get the lead.. Physically he's unbelievable-just a big adonis. He reminds me physically of Citation and his swagger is eye catching. I bet you could drop bomb next to him and he wouldn't blink.. He's got the goods to be something special IMHO.. Now if Pletcher can keep him sound, something Todd has yet to prove he can do with a really good horse..

[bdw0617]

Okay

pletcher came out today and said that the wood was option A and the arkansas derby and Florida derby were options 2a and 2b


I would prefer he go to the arkansas derby for 3 reasons

1. the timing is perfect
2. the competition is going to be better than the wood
3. the trip from oaklawn to Churchill is much shorter than the one from Aqueduct to Churchill



super 99 / V man would be one of the best derby prep races in recent memory. there are some good horses down at gulfstream but there is no super 99 down there.


My biggest fear out of the wood is that he's not gonna run against anyone. he needs to be in a real horse race not a 10 length royal procession where we slob over ourselves to see who we can compare him to (eskrandra (sp) and gemologist comes to mind). he needs to look some real race horses in the eye and beat them.


I don't like the Florida derby because I believe 1. it's a week earlier than the arkansas derby and 2. i hate the surface, though there should be some good horses there, shanghai bobby and itsmyluckyday should be there but i doubt pletcher sends bobby and this monster in the same race.


the correct play is to send him to arkansas. shit send him to Santa Anita. but dont' send him to the wood IMHO not if you actually want to win the derby

[TJ]

Okay

pletcher came out today and said that the wood was option A and the arkansas derby and Florida derby were options 2a and 2b


I would prefer he go to the arkansas derby for 3 reasons

1. the timing is perfect
2. the competition is going to be better than the wood
3. the trip from oaklawn to Churchill is much shorter than the one from Aqueduct to Churchill



super 99 / V man would be one of the best derby prep races in recent memory. there are some good horses down at gulfstream but there is no super 99 down there.


My biggest fear out of the wood is that he's not gonna run against anyone. he needs to be in a real horse race not a 10 length royal procession where we slob over ourselves to see who we can compare him to (eskrandra (sp) and gemologist comes to mind). he needs to look some real race horses in the eye and beat them.


I don't like the Florida derby because I believe 1. it's a week earlier than the arkansas derby and 2. i hate the surface, though there should be some good horses there, shanghai bobby and itsmyluckyday should be there but i doubt pletcher sends bobby and this monster in the same race.


the correct play is to send him to arkansas. shit send him to Santa Anita. but dont' send him to the wood IMHO not if you actually want to win the derby

Hi bdw,
It would be against Pletcher's training pattern to run Verrazano back in 3 weeks....and that would be the timetable for either the Arkansas Derby or the Florida Derby. Truth is the 4 week turnaround is something he doesn't do either....and the Wood is a 4 week turnaround. Then another 4 weeks later is the Derby......kind of quick for Pletcher's normal style of training. Although if he did do the 3 week deal, I would think he would prefer to race here in Florida. Reason being, it would not involve shipping and Verrazano and Shaghai Bobby wouldn't be an owner conflict, since they would run as a common ownership coupled entry. It could be an advantage as Pletcher will have his preferred 5 week break between races. No matter where he runs....he will most likely return to Palm Meadows to complete his Derby training as Pletcher has done with all his Derby runner's. TJ

[oliverstoned]

Could he surprise everyone and run him in the Calder Derby (4/6 250k 1 1/8 dirt) no points, but maybe he figures they're already in.

[TJ]

Could he surprise everyone and run him in the Calder Derby (4/6 250k 1 1/8 dirt) no points, but maybe he figures they're already in.

Hi Oliver,
I don't think so...he will go in one of the three he is looking at. I think his dilemma is between the shipping, the three or four week turnaround and which would be most beneficial to V.... and don't forget, he did grab a quarter and may need a bit more time to get back to galloping? And, of course a main concern, not running against Shanghai Bobby....no doubt Shanghai Bobby will need some more points to get into the Derby. Then Bobby's had a longer layoff than V did....the timing could work better to send Shanghai to the Wood and let Verrazano run in the Florida Derby. TJ

[Whirlaway]

Disagree.

As written Shanghai and Verrazano are owned by the Coolmore Group. No doubt they are going to do what is in the best interest of the horse and no doubt they will do what is in the best interest of their pocketbook. No doubt they will be doing what is in the best of Shanghai and his breeding value.

Shanghai is the Champ, he no doubt will get first prerogative, he stays in Florida for the Florida Derby. Doubtful they will ship the Champ out and leave the injured Verrrazano in and what is to say that the injury Verrazano sustained in the Tampa Bay may take him off the Derby Trail? At this point in time Shanghai possesses higher breeding value because of what he has accomplished as a two-year-old. Coolmore will be trying to augment his value with the Florida Derby and the Kentucky Derby. Verrazano . . . he has some work to do yet, first is to get back to the track.

Gotta beat the Champ to be the Champ.

[TJ]

A decision was reached, Verrazano will run next in the Wood. TJ
http://www.drf.com/news/verrazano-point ... derby-prep