47 TB have been put down at HOLLYWOOD PK.

[louis finochio]

The TB will have the final say on PT. If PT is going to cut down the % of injuries and breakdowns, then it will be well received by the industry.

After talking to the gallop boys from across the pond, they give the PT a big thumbs up.

The Euro training is different from the US, as thir TB are not worked every work on the PT. Those TB are walked for many miles in between works and gallops.

Thats why those Euro trainers get more mileage out of our US TB.
When a TB races on soft turf and is not gunned out of the gate, those TB will make many more lifetime starts.

In the US the sprinters will not make as many lifetime starts as the distance TB. The sprinters are given their head out of the gate and their underpining will be under great stress as this type of sprints will take its toll.

[halo]

Heres the lifetime starts for the last 10 English Derby winners:

2005 -- Motivator - 6 starts

2004 -- North Light - 6 starts

2003 -- Kris Kin - 5 starts

2002 -- High Chaparral - 13 starts

2001 - Galileo - 8 starts

2000 - Sinndar -- 8 starts

1999 - Oath - 7 starts

1998 - High Rise - 13 starts

1997 - Benny the Dip - 11 starts

1996 - Shaamit - 5 starts

Now he'res the lifetime starts of the last 10 Breeders Cup Sprint winners:


2005 - Silver Train - 14 starts so far

2004 - Speightstown - 16 starts

2003 - Cajun Beat - 18 starts

2002 - Orientate - 19 starts

2001 - Squirtle Squirt - 16 starts

2000 - Kona Gold - 30 starts

1999 - Artax - 25 starts

1998 - Reraise - 9 starts

1997 - Elmhurst - 34 starts

1996 - Lit de Justice - 22 starts

Seems like the ones being "gunned out of the gate" are making more starts than the Euros on the soft ground.

[louis finochio]

Thanks for the info Halo. I will breakdown their pedigrees and post what I find. Be well Louis.

[Sam]

Thanks for the info Halo. I will breakdown their pedigrees and post what I find. Be well Louis.

Please don't, Not unless you intend to include crosses of Phalaris you normally ignore every time you put up those numbers because they come from Phalaris daughters and not Phalaris sons. You do realize when you IGNORE half the pedigree, you are just twisting data to suit your needs.

[ragsdaj1]

the return of the 100 year old horse.......I'm guessing this is the one.

Impressive post Halo

[austique]

Popess Madonna the First declares that Phalaris shall be left to rot in peace and "popped collars" look as dumb now as they did in the '80's. Kayne West doing it does not make it cool. The Popess has spoken!

[Sam]

Popess Madonna the First declares that Phalaris shall be left to rot in peace and "popped collars" look as dumb now as they did in the '80's. Kayne West doing it does not make it cool. The Popess has spoken!

genuflects

You're not going to make me kiss that ring, are you? I hear you keep forgetting to take it off when you palp the mares.

[austique]

Popess Madonna the First declares that Phalaris shall be left to rot in peace and "popped collars" look as dumb now as they did in the '80's. Kayne West doing it does not make it cool. The Popess has spoken!

genuflects

You're not going to make me kiss that ring, are you? I hear you keep forgetting to take it off when you palp the mares.

Scoff Popess...Direct line to God...Like I need to palp ...and that's a very naughty finger to hold up

[louis finochio]

SPRINTERS

Elmhurst/ 51 starts/ 10 NP/ 6 PH

Lit de Justice/ 36 Starts/ 11 NP/ 5 PH

Kona Gold/ 30 Starts/ 10 NP/ 6 PH

Artax/ 25 Starts/ 9 PH/ 7 NP

Orientate/ 19 Starts/ 11 NP/ 5 PH

Cajun Beat/ 19 Starts/ 11 PH/ 5 NP

Speightstown/ 16 Starts/ 8 NP/ 8 PH

Squirtle Squirt/ 16 Starts/ 10 PH/ 6 NP

Silver Train/ 14 Starts/ 10 NP/ 6 PH

Reraise/ 9 Starts/ 11 NP/ 5 PH

As we can see from this breakdown of sire lines, the NP is still the catalyst for soundness. I will breakdown the distance TB next. To be continued.

[madelyn]

No amount of logic will deter Louis from his course

[halo]

This has nothing to do with sire lines, Louis. This has to do with your statement that the Euro trained horses make more starts than our dirt sprinters. Period.

[ragsdaj1]

No amount of logic will deter Louis from his course

An Evangelist must preach the gospel even if the tent is empty.

[halo]

So Louis think the NP lines are the "catalyst" for soundness, and the Euros train horses to make more starts than our sprinters. Well, I already showed how many starts the Derby winners vs. the Sprint winners made. Now just to make Louis happy, heres the P/NP lines of the most recent Derby winners:

Motivator - 6 starts --- P-11, NP-5

North Light - 6 starts ---- P-8, NP-8

Kris Kin - 5 starts ---- P-6, NP-10

High Chaparral - 13 starts ----P-7, NP-9

Galileo - 8 starts --- P-7, NP-9

Sinndar - 8 starts - P-5, NP-11

Oath - 7 starts - P-5, NP-11

High Rise - 13 starts - P-5, NP-11

Benny the Dip - 11 starts - P-5, NP-11

Shaamit - 5 starts - P-4, NP-12


These numbers do little to convince me that the Euro methods produce sounder horses, or that the way to breed sounder horses is by using less Phalaris lines.

[louis finochio]

I am going to add Shamardal to the distance list.

Shamardal/ 7 Starts/ 12 PH/ 4 NP/ Shamardal was retired at 3 because of an injury.

The Euro racing scene has changed over the years. Many owners are only racing their TB as 3yr. olds then they are retired to the pen for $$.

Years ago those owners raced their TB 4 yr. old and up, but in todays time their is a small % of TB of that age racing. That will mean fewer starts per TB.

Motivator, was retired because of an injury at 3.
North Light was injured and retired.
Sinndar was retired to stud at 3.

[ragsdaj1]

Louis,

I dont look at pedigrees much when choosing a stallion. I look into their eyes and see if you can find lines and peaks and valleys in the iris surrounding the pupil, as this is the breeders eye. When the iris is smooth with no lines visible that is a racing eye.

When I find a racing eye I breed regardless of the Phalaris thing.

JonR