[quote="MidwestTrainer"]I've got to race over the Poly at AP twice with two different horses. It is really strange to walk over, it feels wet and heavy and there is no push back up. My old gelding ran great over it and has came back great from it but trains at a different track. I took a two year old up to get accustomed to the track and he really seemed to like it.
That being said, there were just as many sore horses galloping as there are at any track, so it isn't going to stop the breakdowns, maybe just delay them.
YUP!!! And PM me would you. Let's compare notes. I'd be interested in your take on it.
I know it doesn't "seem" to handle a lot of wear and tear. Woodbine and Turfway had a lot of trouble in the second seasons. It is way too expensive to replace every year.
Thus the saving of money being a silly point, really.
**Added**
That stuff sticks to the horses legs like no other. Nothing like scrubbing with soap for 30 minutes extra trying to get it all off their legs. Is it the same in Cali?
[/i]We don't train a horse with out a bandage of somesort, but they sure do come back covered. Hinds especially. With fibres. So far the washing machine is taking it, but I wonder for how long. And if every horse takes off as much surface, how long till more is added, and how much THAT degrades or impacts the surface on a daily, weekly, monthly basis.
Is Del Mar's new Polytrack unsafe?
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Worksoplad
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Rokeby wrote:
"Seeing Finally Blonde pull up and get vanned off really started tonight at Hollywood Park off on a high note:
http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pd ... 07USA1.pdf
Water it too much, it dies. Not enough water, it also dies. Is this crap a racing surface or a tulip?
Nothing was vanned off at "lots of sand with a deep base" Belmont today, Michael. Nor yesterday...nor the day before that...nor the racing day (Sunday) before that...."
Michael responded:
"Finally Blonde ran in a turf race."
Rokeby replied:
"What does the horse train on? I thought synthetics save careers
Michael, I don't know why you try to argue with this idiot. He just has his own agendas and will not listen to or accept the slightest demurrer to them. This is a prime example.
"Seeing Finally Blonde pull up and get vanned off really started tonight at Hollywood Park off on a high note:
http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pd ... 07USA1.pdf
Water it too much, it dies. Not enough water, it also dies. Is this crap a racing surface or a tulip?
Nothing was vanned off at "lots of sand with a deep base" Belmont today, Michael. Nor yesterday...nor the day before that...nor the racing day (Sunday) before that...."
Michael responded:
"Finally Blonde ran in a turf race."
Rokeby replied:
"What does the horse train on? I thought synthetics save careers
Michael, I don't know why you try to argue with this idiot. He just has his own agendas and will not listen to or accept the slightest demurrer to them. This is a prime example.
"Who kills a man kills a reasonable creature, but he who destroys a good book kills reason itself." John Milton.
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Tucumcari
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CA Michael wrote:Midwest trainer,
One thing I learned at the State Senate meeting last week is how artificial surfaces react in different climates. In colder, wetter regions like Canada and northern Kentucky, the material tends to "pack" in the horses' hooves. That is a situation which both tracks became alerted to and are dealing with. California's drier climate tends to have the opposite effect on artificial surfaces, which is why they may need more water.
England--Ontario, Canada--Florence, KY--Arlington Heights, IL--Inglewood, CA--Del Mar, CA. Each of these climates is unique and brings new management challenges to the tracks. Without question, in five years time the learning curve will be on its downward slide and we will know a lot more about handling these surfaces. In the meantime, far fewer horses will die on them than would have otherwise died on the dirt tracks which they replaced. The facts overwhelmingly prove this.
It is interesting that Canada and KY are colder climates... Toronto is ridiculously hot and humid in the summer. Plus 100 degrees F... Not too cool by my standards, and Kentucky in the early fall and summer the same. Yes I have been to both. Toronto doesn't race on POly in the winter, Turfway does, but Keeneland does not... still the same troubles. I wish you would choose to be fully informed as per climate and racing dates per jurisdiction.
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Tucumcari
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]
Louis, this is exactly the point I tried to make. In cold, wet England the polytrack reacts differently than it does in warm, dry California. More water on the English polytrack would make it harder; less water is indicated there. More water on CA polytrack makes it softer; less water is not indicated here.
As far as Del Mar goes, here are the facts: 12 horses galloped on it in April and two of them emerged with some degree of hind-end discomfort. That's 20%. This isn't the end of the world--it just suggests that the track needs some tinkering. I fully expect that by the beginning of the meet most of the kinks will be worked out. Even if they aren't, and horses break down on it, there isn't the remotest possibility the numbers will come anywhere near the quantity of horses who lost their lives last year on Del Mar's dirt track. The worst polytrack is still multiple times more safe than the best dirt track, at least in California.[/quote]
It's an all weather surface... water shouldn't have a giant effect. I personally think it's better with water. They get a hold of it way better... yeeesss behind. I wouldn't work a mule I hated over it after 8:00 when it's dry and loose. That's when they get hurt. Not that I speak from experience... I just heard it somewhere
Louis, this is exactly the point I tried to make. In cold, wet England the polytrack reacts differently than it does in warm, dry California. More water on the English polytrack would make it harder; less water is indicated there. More water on CA polytrack makes it softer; less water is not indicated here.
As far as Del Mar goes, here are the facts: 12 horses galloped on it in April and two of them emerged with some degree of hind-end discomfort. That's 20%. This isn't the end of the world--it just suggests that the track needs some tinkering. I fully expect that by the beginning of the meet most of the kinks will be worked out. Even if they aren't, and horses break down on it, there isn't the remotest possibility the numbers will come anywhere near the quantity of horses who lost their lives last year on Del Mar's dirt track. The worst polytrack is still multiple times more safe than the best dirt track, at least in California.[/quote]
It's an all weather surface... water shouldn't have a giant effect. I personally think it's better with water. They get a hold of it way better... yeeesss behind. I wouldn't work a mule I hated over it after 8:00 when it's dry and loose. That's when they get hurt. Not that I speak from experience... I just heard it somewhere
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Rokeby Forever
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Tucumcari..nice to see you back!
These are the same people that ran to nasal strips and aerodynamic silks. They think anything that's trendy is a miracle...until it's proven to be crap.
Are they saying that safe-as-can-be Belmont would improve with a new surafce? Let's suppose one is planted - in July, NY is 95 degrees and muggy. In October, it's 55 degrees and cool. NY can get a large rainstorm at any given time. Horses train on it in the winter when the wind chill is zero degrees. Look how the NYRA has run down Aqueduct into a fall apart surface - do you expect the NYRA to maintain Polyshit at Belmont every time there's a weather change?
Call Johnny V, Edgar Prado, or Garret Gomez right now - ask them how Belmont's surface is and ask them when was the last time at Belmont they rode a horse that broke down.
Both the Titanic and Polytrack sailed out of England. That's no coincidence.
Manhattan, California? I never heard of a Los Angeles, New York. Real creative place you live in, Worksoplad. LOL!
These are the same people that ran to nasal strips and aerodynamic silks. They think anything that's trendy is a miracle...until it's proven to be crap.
Are they saying that safe-as-can-be Belmont would improve with a new surafce? Let's suppose one is planted - in July, NY is 95 degrees and muggy. In October, it's 55 degrees and cool. NY can get a large rainstorm at any given time. Horses train on it in the winter when the wind chill is zero degrees. Look how the NYRA has run down Aqueduct into a fall apart surface - do you expect the NYRA to maintain Polyshit at Belmont every time there's a weather change?
Call Johnny V, Edgar Prado, or Garret Gomez right now - ask them how Belmont's surface is and ask them when was the last time at Belmont they rode a horse that broke down.
Both the Titanic and Polytrack sailed out of England. That's no coincidence.
Manhattan, California? I never heard of a Los Angeles, New York. Real creative place you live in, Worksoplad. LOL!
Last edited by Rokeby Forever on Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
What synthetics are to California racing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
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CA Michael
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Worksoplad,
You're right, of course. I just enjoy watching megalomaniacs self destruct.
You're right, of course. I just enjoy watching megalomaniacs self destruct.
Last edited by CA Michael on Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Convictions without Courage are worthless
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Tucumcari
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[quote="Rokeby Forever"]Tucumcari..nice to see you back!
Thanks, my computer failed me
These are the same people that ran to nasal strips and aerodynamic silks. They think anything that's trendy is a miracle...until it's proven to be crap.
Are they saying that safe-as-can-be Belmont would improve with a new surafce? Let's suppose one is planted - in July, NY is 95 degrees and muggy. In October, it's 55 degrees and cool. NY can get a large rainstorm at any given time. Horses train on it in the winter when the wind chill is zero degrees. Look how the NYRA has run down Aqueduct into a fall apart surface - do you expect the NYRA to maintain Polyshit at Belmont every time there's a weather change?
Call Johnny V, Edgar Prado, or Garret Gomez right now - ask them how Belmont's surface is and ask them when was the last time at Belmont they rode a horse that broke down.
Both the Titanic and Polytrack sailed out of England. That's no coincidence
HA!!!!!
Thanks, my computer failed me
These are the same people that ran to nasal strips and aerodynamic silks. They think anything that's trendy is a miracle...until it's proven to be crap.
Are they saying that safe-as-can-be Belmont would improve with a new surafce? Let's suppose one is planted - in July, NY is 95 degrees and muggy. In October, it's 55 degrees and cool. NY can get a large rainstorm at any given time. Horses train on it in the winter when the wind chill is zero degrees. Look how the NYRA has run down Aqueduct into a fall apart surface - do you expect the NYRA to maintain Polyshit at Belmont every time there's a weather change?
Call Johnny V, Edgar Prado, or Garret Gomez right now - ask them how Belmont's surface is and ask them when was the last time at Belmont they rode a horse that broke down.
Both the Titanic and Polytrack sailed out of England. That's no coincidence
HA!!!!!
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Pedigree Ann
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CA Michael wrote:griff,
The point of the initial post is that Del Mar management is once again being ingenuous with the public and the horsemen about its new track. .
ingenuous = free from reserve, disguise, or dissimulation; open; frank; candid
You wanted the opposite. DISingenuous. Just a heads-up for the next time you want to use the term.
There is no such thing as too much Teddy.
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CA Michael
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Worksoplad
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"Manhattan, California? I never heard of a Los Angeles, New York. Real creative place you live in, Worksoplad. LOL!"
You should pay us a visit Rokeby. Manhattan Beach is a Mecca for local sports stars and the Hollywood set. No property slump here with Lakers, Kings, Dodgers players making a bee line to buy houses in MB. The delectable Maria Sharapova is also a local resident. The Manhattan Beach Volleyball Tournament and the MB Tennis Tournament are both major televised events.
What's more it's only 15 minutes from Hollywood Park and 1 1/4 hours from Del Mar.
You should pay us a visit Rokeby. Manhattan Beach is a Mecca for local sports stars and the Hollywood set. No property slump here with Lakers, Kings, Dodgers players making a bee line to buy houses in MB. The delectable Maria Sharapova is also a local resident. The Manhattan Beach Volleyball Tournament and the MB Tennis Tournament are both major televised events.
What's more it's only 15 minutes from Hollywood Park and 1 1/4 hours from Del Mar.
"Who kills a man kills a reasonable creature, but he who destroys a good book kills reason itself." John Milton.
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MidwestTrainer
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