Saturday's Important Races

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:56 am

I think you're right, Tesio. Bill Mott won more than 5X as many races at Saratoga than Pletcher did this year. And as far as who can train a two year old, why does Mott keep popping up with good one after good one that haven't broken down yet?

Tesio · Postby **Tesio** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:10 am

I'm with you Roke. Mott is a better candidate. So is Mclaughlin and, as much as it pains me to say, Asmussen will get many votes.

The Eclipse sould be given to the trainer who does the best with what he has. Pletcher has started 1165 horses to Mclaughlin's 480. Pletcher has made $27.5 Million to Kiaran's $12.4 Million.

Pletcher's stable is about 3x the size of Kiaran's. Neither gets cheap claimers, but let's face it, Pletcher's owners are more plentiful and sending him all their big $ babies.

KPM is deserving of the Eclipse Award this year.

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:25 am

Kiaran McLaughlin is a TERRIFIC trainer. How much more would the guy make if the Sheikh didn't keep taking horses away from Kiaran to ruin in Dubai? Look at the great job Kiaran did winning the Cigar Mile yesterday and defeating Midnite Lute - Pletcher didn't even have anything to enter...he broke down Half Ours again back in May, and Scat Daddy with his ripped up feet are a distant memory.

Georgerz wrote:So you wannabes, envious, jealous and bitter losers, suck it up.

This is George at his best. I have nothing but praise for Bill Mott and Kiaran McLaughlin, but I'm "envious" and a "wannabe." George is the kind of guy that would want ARod as his cleanup hitter in the playoffs - I'd rather have David Ortiz.

Getting back to this weekend, I think Pure Clan is really being overlooked. She's getting better and better and the distances are stretching out. I know that Lewis Lakin sells/pinhooks a lot of his stock - I wonder what the going price is on this filly right now....I imagine that she'll be under new ownership pretty soon.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:07 pm

Tesio wrote:Nice call bdw.

Did Darley purchase Admire Moon recently? I recall reading somewhere awhile ago where they were allowed entry into Japanese racing and breeding.

thanks

was purchsed after his grade 1 win in I think July, for $31 US million.

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:34 pm

I think he was purchased with Euros, BDW.

Tesio · Postby **Tesio** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:48 pm

$31 Million seems like a whole bunch for this horse. I know he has been a terrific race horse, but he is a son of End Sweep. Not sure he'd be worth near that if he were this accomplished in the US.

I guess one could say the JRA has a different agenda than the states. Stand tremendous racehorses no matter who their daddy is.

Tesio · Postby **Tesio** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:50 pm

Nice run by Precious Kitten today at Hollywood. I don't know what it is but I find it hard to root for Ken Ramsey. Must be one of my many character flaws!

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:29 pm

The Ramseys are GREAT for this sport.

Tesio · Postby **Tesio** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:40 pm

I feel you Roke. I don't have anything against them, heck I've never even met them. I just don't know why I find it hard to root for them.

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:50 pm

C'mon, Tesio - the guy has a huge stable, but he claims, he stands his own sire and supports him well, and he's a HUGE Pick 6 player. He loves the game and has never done anything to hurt it. As big owners go, he's my favorite one.

You have to love Catienus. Guys pay MILLIONS for a Storm Cat stallion prospect and Ramsey claimed Catienus from Cristophe Clemente for $50,000. His trainer at the time, Rick Schossberg, tried to talk Ramsey out of claiming the horse, but Ramsey took a shot and it paid off. He breeds Catienus to his own mares and does very well - how can you not root for that?

Tesio · Postby **Tesio** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:22 pm

Roke, you give good valid rasons to like the guy. I am incredibly impressed with the success he's having with Catienus. That was a big risk which is definitely paying off big. I remember he let many yearlings from his first crop sell for just about nothing and they ran their eyeballs out.

Maybe I am put off by his inability to stay loyal to his trainers throughout the years. He has gone thru many in the past and they always seem to end on bad terms. But hell, they are his horses, so he has every right to move them.

I didn't know he was a huge pick 6 player. That info alone is enough for me to root for the guy. Heck, now I feel like he's one of us.

I'm not usually very easily convinced, but you got me. I am now a Ramsey fan.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:11 pm

Tesio wrote:$31 Million seems like a whole bunch for this horse. I know he has been a terrific race horse, but he is a son of End Sweep. Not sure he'd be worth near that if he were this accomplished in the US.

I guess one could say the JRA has a different agenda than the states. Stand tremendous racehorses no matter who their daddy is.

opps.. 33 million

33 million for the best horse in the world is about right. And that is not an exgeration.. he really IS the best horse in the world. he's danced every dance, beaten challengers from across the globe, world class challengers at that.

tesio, you are looking at End Sweep as far as American Terms. End Sweep is by forty niner who is beloved in japan and Amdmire Moon's damsire is the world's leading damsire as far as earnings.

looking at his female family..why not? not american houshold names by any stretch but definatly produced some runners.

aND he is versitile enough pedigree wise to get dirt and turf runners.

also, end sweep was the leading sire for 2 years running before he died in japan.

Precoius kitten is a monster.

I've always been a ramsey fan.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:16 pm

the trainer eclipse should be very very simple... go to the guy whog ets the most breeders cup wins. Every ohter eclipse award for the omst part is crowned on that day. the award shouldn't og ot te guy who can talk his way into a bunch of million dollar babies. it should go to the guy who gets the most out of them

bAffert had 2 wins on BC day, and I dont' think anyone else did. Pletch only won 1 out of 13 enteries, and he had to get a soft course to get that.

baffert would be my eclipse award winning trainer

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:04 pm

Tesio wrote:I didn't know he was a huge pick 6 player. That info alone is enough for me to root for the guy. Heck, now I feel like he's one of us.

True story, Tesio: A couple of years ago, Dale Romans brought to Saratoga something like 10 Ramsey horses. On one Saturday, NYRA was promoting a guaranteed $1 Million Pick 6. Ramsey purposely made Romans run one horse on that Saturday cheaper than it should have just so he could key it in the Pick 6.

The horse won for fun and was claimed, but Ramsey didn't care - the Pick 6 came back over $200,000 and he had a ticket on it.

Now...is that a GREAT owner or what?

Ramsey does use and dump a lot of different trainers, but a lot of big stable guys do that. How many trainers did Richard Englander go through in his heyday? I know that Ernie Paragallo (Paraneck) is impossible to deal with and he's gone through a lot of trainers, too. Remember when Michael Gill was claiming everything in sight and changing trainers almost every day? I guess Ramsey has his reasons.

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:15 pm

bdw0617 wrote:baffert would be my eclipse award winning trainer

For drilling the heck out of Maimonides and bucking his shins?

It's Kiaran McLaughlin, HANDS DOWN!

He won the Dubai World Cup with Invasor.

He won the BC Filly Turf with Lahudood.

He beat Rags To Riches with Lear Princess.

He beat Midnight Lute with Daaher in the Cigar Mile.

He brought back Shakespeare to win the Woodbine Mile.

Shakis broke Saratoga's track record in the Bernard Baruch.

He's giving Dubai a ready made Etched.

Geeze, Louise...when is this guy going to get the recognition that he deserves? It's not like he carries 200 horses with 200 replacements ready for him - and you can't give the Eclipse to a guy that makes a fool of himself in the KY Derby.