Drugs: What we've lost...

[Sock Monkey]

You're looking to pick a fight, so you'll say anything to verify your point. I jumped to no conclusions. I didn't really know, so I asked.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as looking to pick a fight - I'm really not. But, you asked the question, I provided the answer and you didn't like it. That's fine. But you still don't KNOW what drugs those horses were on and you are definitely misinterpreting their behavior.

Why do you care? If were a bunch of mis-informed crusaders, why do you care to change our minds? One mans factual information is another mans lies. I believe drugs are ruining the sport. I am sure you know better... but I have a right to my opinion. As do you. You, with your first hand knowledge, are going to deny the fact that drugs are ruining the sport? The USERS admit that drugs are ruining the sport. What exactly are you crusading for?

I care because I hate to see the industry I am a part of and love attacked like this. I am all for improvement and I will be the first to tell you there is plenty of room for improvement. But, all people seem to want to do is attack - they don't want to listen when experienced voices (and I'm not talking about myself here, I've seen this done to so many people) try to provide facts. Obviously, I am probably not going to change your mind, dray. But, I felt compelled to point out a few things for those others who may be reading this and trying to form an opinion.

I don't think drugs are ruining the sport. I think the crap surrounding drugs is ruining the sport, though. I think misunderstanding of drugs and their uses and benefits is ruining the sport. There are certainly drugs that don't belong in horse racing. But, there are others that are beneficial and help the horses do their jobs more comfortably. I don't see how that is ruining anything. And, no, I don't believe in training through the needle - my horses really run pretty clean. There are drugs mine will never get (EPO is one), but drugs like Lasix - especially when running in a hot and humid climate like I do - have their purpose. And, I assure you - my horses aren't angry about it. They're eager to race, but they aren't crazed from being doped up. Come see me pre-race sometime and I'll be glad to show you.

[Sysonby]

Not to mention the fact that most of the non race barns I've been around have many of the "drugs" the boards moan about onhand as a matter of simple animal husbandry. Most barns have bute--its as common as Advil. My non race trainer has used dex to deal with hives. Lasix is less common once you get away from the high performance horse but not completely unknown out there.

I think Sock Monkey has a point here. Drugs have become the big boogie man but there's no context to the hysteria. Does a nanogram of anything make a difference? Should a thoughtful newspaper reporter lump failure to have foal papers on file in with a mepivicaine violation? Is it enough to get upset about three bute overages in and of themselves or should responsible journalism point out that those overages represents all of the drug violations for a trainer in 8000 starts? Does it matter when it appears that people's minds are made up and they want witches to hunt?

What about Dutrow's assertion that he hasn't had a fatal breakdown in the afternoon since 2001? Does it matter or is he just a cheater and a druggie and who cares?

Oh and dray--you lost me with the foaming at the mouth thing too. Dressage trainers love to see that and I've seen Olympic level horses with foam splashed all over their chest and forearms. It's widely seen as a sign of submission and happiness with the bit and the hands that are holding the reins. At least that's what I was always taught and I've had plenty of green drool on me through the years from happy saddle horses.

[dray33]

You both bring up good points, and I don't know what foaming at the mouth really means, that's why I asked. And I agree that some drugs are beneficial to the animal. I have said this from day one: I am not against the use of steroids. I am not against the use of any drug that helps horses. HOWEVER, if the horse needs those drugs, they should also be given time off for whatever is the reason the horse needs the drug in the first place. As long as they are racing clean, I don't care. I DO CARE however, if my trainer doesn't use performance enhancing medications, and the guy next to me does. And they are in the horse race day. The playing field has to be made level.

Drugs may not be the boogey-man. But they are indicative of the issues our sport faces. We have sat by, done nothing, knowing that trainers have been using these medications, and taking money out of the pockets of people who don't. We remained silent. Maybe that is where some of my disappointment lies. And the fact that people don't think it matters at all. It's ludicrous. WHY ALLOW THEM? In your world, if you are coming to the sport, you had better use the drugs, because they are harmless, make no difference, and help the horse. So it's your choice if you are foolish enough not to use them. FORGET if you don't think it is wise, or helping the sport, or hurting the breed. USE THEM, because if you don't, you will be at a huge competitive disadvantage. OK. Then, why not make them mandatory? How do you feel about the use in sales horses? Yearlings? It's all there for you. And you are going to align yourself on the side of unregulated usage? The sport has been given decades to regualte itself. Look what its come down to! Downright embarrasing.

I sense that horses act differently in Europe than here, and maybe I am wrong. Some people on the forum agree, others do not. I am just telling you what I noticed, between horses here (legally using race day and steroid medications) and those who don't. Is it the training? Maybe. Breeding? Maybe. Drugs? MAYBE. I should have the right to examine it. Am I mislead? MAYBE. But that's my personal observation. What do I know? I am still learning.

[dray33]

I don't think drugs are ruining the sport. I think the crap surrounding drugs is ruining the sport, though. I think misunderstanding of drugs and their uses and benefits is ruining the sport. There are certainly drugs that don't belong in horse racing. But, there are others that are beneficial and help the horses do their jobs more comfortably. I don't see how that is ruining anything. And, no, I don't believe in training through the needle - my horses really run pretty clean. There are drugs mine will never get (EPO is one), but drugs like Lasix - especially when running in a hot and humid climate like I do - have their purpose. And, I assure you - my horses aren't angry about it. They're eager to race, but they aren't crazed from being doped up. Come see me pre-race sometime and I'll be glad to show you.

It's obvious you have 100x the knowledge I do, sockmonkey. I ask questions, post comments to learn. But to be fair, when you say "I think misunderstanding of drugs and their uses and benefits is ruining the sport." is really subterfuge... I have talked to many trainers, vets, industry veterans, and from each I can tell you that many would like to see drug use cleaned up in the sport... that it's use IS tilting the playing field and no amount of explanation or anecdotes can change that. It is real, it exists... And it's hurting the horses. Maybe not the way YOU are using them, granted. But that's YOU. Look around you, I can assure you that others are not so conservative with the use of medications. It's laughable, it's everywhere, and even the leadership of the sport is embarrased it has gotten this far out of hand without a single step forward. We look like idiots/cheats/thugs. Yes, I know, to the general public who has no idea about how well the horses are treated, I agree... but even within our own ranks. Thus, through corruption, we find ourselves here... on the verge of Government intervention.

[aardvark]

I DO CARE however, if my trainer doesn't use performance enhancing medications, and the guy next to me does. And they are in the horse race day. The playing field has to be made level.

Dray you keep saying this and it simply isn't true. The playing field is level. All entries are under the same state regulations. The playing field is level. Your trainer knows the rules, the other trainers know the rules.
This is as level as it gets. Please don't say but one cheats and administers more than allowed etc. That is a different issue all together.

Horse racing at the core of its existence is an uneven field. Never in my life I have ever watched 10 horses leave the gate with the same odds. One trainer charges 100 a day and the other charges 75, and another might charge 35. Level the playing field all entries must have trainer who charge the same rate? This horse sold for 1 million running against $1000 Tx breds. Boy that seems fair. Only horses who sold for 1k can enter this next race? There is just about nothing in racing that is level. You will never catch me saying that my competitor cheats because I refuse to use steroids. If my horse isnt prepared to run against horses in the race then my trainer has let me down, not steroids.

[Sock Monkey]

I have talked to many trainers, vets, industry veterans, and from each I can tell you that many would like to see drug use cleaned up in the sport...

When you say "cleaned up" to me, that means something different than banning all drugs. Cleaning up the sport - I can get behind that 100%. To me, cleaning up means cracking down on the drugs that have no business at the track in the way they are being used - drugs like EPO that have terrible longterm effects and blocking agents that allow someone to run a horse that doesn't need to be running.

The other night we ran a horse and had to use the receiving barn. When the horse moved around in the shavings, he kicked up an uncapped needle and syringe. I was irritated because he could have stepped on it and I had to try to dispose of it without someone thinking it was mine. While I would like to think it had been dropped by a vet and was from something like a jug, we were fairly certain it was from a block and if I'd stabbed myself with it trying to squirrel it away enroute to the trash I'd have not been able to feel my hand for a week. It really sucks that is the first thing that comes to mind and I think that is telling about our sport.

The problem is - cleaning up is hard to do. Legitimate drugs can be used in illegitimate ways. There are things no one even knows to test for. Etc. A total ban would be easier, but I don't think that would be better for the horses in the long run.

Racing has a tendancy for knee jerk reactions. A total ban on medication would be just that. I'm in support of clean up, but let's do it the hard way and try to make it the best solution for us all in the long run.

[dray33]

Dray you keep saying this and it simply isn't true. The playing field is level. All entries are under the same state regulations. The playing field is level. Your trainer knows the rules, the other trainers know the rules. This is as level as it gets. Please don't say but one cheats and administers more than allowed etc. That is a different issue all together.

Wrong. Herein lies the problem. The playing field is level ONLY if you agree "all the drugs that the sport currently classified as legal, is okay to use on your horses". I don't think they are. Obviously there is some discussion as to whether these drugs have hurt the sport, or if they hurt the breed. So others are concerned too. I am not alone. My conscious does not allow me to administer these drugs with reckless abandon, regardless of legality. Your edict says "so what? If you want to compete, use what everyone else uses, if you don't, your loss". In your view of the world, if you're one of the fools that think it makes one bit of difference, you had better find a trainer that uses these drugs if you want to compete. AND, since I use trainers that are VERY conservative when it comes to medication usage, and believe that a horse should get time off in lieu of many legal "medications"... I'm become the idiot at a disadvantage, because I don't subscribe to your vision of "fair racing". Thanks, but NO THANKS. I want it changed so that we are ALL on the same page. What exactly does that mean? I'll explain below...

When you say "cleaned up" to me, that means something different than banning all drugs. Cleaning up the sport - I can get behind that 100%. To me, cleaning up means cracking down on the drugs that have no business at the track in the way they are being used - drugs like EPO that have terrible longterm effects and blocking agents that allow someone to run a horse that doesn't need to be running.

See, here we agree. But, there is so many loopholes and end-arounds that I think the BEST way to accomplish exactly what you are stating is to allow ANY drug to be used. PERIOD. But not if the horse is racing. Whatever the time tolerance is, regardless of effect, use medications that help your horse to your hearts content. But when the horse enters the starting gate, just like in Germany, France, Great Britain, Australia, etc., make sure the horse runs "clean". If some medications should be legal on race day, make a clear distinction, set the rules, enforce them with swift and strict limitations, and make the rules NATIONAL.

The problem is - cleaning up is hard to do. Legitimate drugs can be used in illegitimate ways. There are things no one even knows to test for. Etc. A total ban would be easier, but I don't think that would be better for the horses in the long run. Racing has a tendancy for knee jerk reactions. A total ban on medication would be just that. I'm in support of clean up, but let's do it the hard way and try to make it the best solution for us all in the long run.

Understood and agreed. I am against a total ban. I want the horses to run as equals on race day... other than that, medicate to your hearts content OFF the track.

We are so dependent of drugs nowadays, even the big name trainers dont know how to unravel themselves out of the mess. Here's a prediction: If all steroids/race day medications are banned, within minutes, trainers will suddenly become "true horseman" and decry the use of those medications... horses will need the same amount of help, but these trainers will find ways of keeping the horse sound, happy and racing without the need to medicate the horse like before... just like magic.