Will we have too many Bernardini's?

[erhrdt3]

Great post Sylvie!

And X Factor, you said it well: HOW MANY horses can this country absorb???

Well, guess what? To those of you who breed breed breed every single year, YOU are the problems to what Xfactor brought up!!! This country can't absorb your horses you are overbreeding yearly. Just because a mare is in your barn does not mean she need be bred every year! Where is that law written, I'd like to know??

People with this sick mentality of the constantly breeding more and more horses every year should be charged, and charged big by any and all registrations and that money used to put towards the care of such horses. These are not machines, many think they are; they are livng, breathing, heart beating, feeling creatures. To think that one week a horse is running its heart out for someone than they next they are being "culled" (rhymes with killed), is just disgusting. That's why most regular people do not like this sport because of the truth coming out about it now. All you chronic breeders are doing is providing more reason for the slaughter houses to open, why don't you think about that and not your darned pocketbooks?!

Be an example of good, don't be one that is shameful.

[Tappiano]

Why are you trying to tell people what to do with their money? They are the one's who pay the upkeep on the mares, pay the stud fees and pay the vet bills.

Do you honestly believe a mare standing in a field is capable of thinking that she's had a few too many foals and she'd like a year off?

[TJ]

Great post Sylvie!

And X Factor, you said it well: HOW MANY horses can this country absorb???

Well, guess what? To those of you who breed breed breed every single year, YOU are the problems to what Xfactor brought up!!! This country can't absorb your horses you are overbreeding yearly. Just because a mare is in your barn does not mean she need be bred every year! Where is that law written, I'd like to know??

People with this sick mentality of the constantly breeding more and more horses every year should be charged, and charged big by any and all registrations and that money used to put towards the care of such horses. These are not machines, many think they are; they are livng, breathing, heart beating, feeling creatures. To think that one week a horse is running its heart out for someone than they next they are being "culled" (rhymes with killed), is just disgusting. That's why most regular people do not like this sport because of the truth coming out about it now. All you chronic breeders are doing is providing more reason for the slaughter houses to open, why don't you think about that and not your darned pocketbooks?!

Be an example of good, don't be one that is shameful.

Hi Erhrdt,
I wish you were correct that the slaughter problem lies within the racing industry only. But the truth is, if all the race horses were removed from the kill pens they would still be overflowing. There are so many differant types, breeds of horses out there producing many more horses annually then the TB race industry. The wild horse's and burro's herd size doubles over every 4 year period....currently their population is near 40,000 roaming on federal land.....and they are overpopulated. I don't know where you race, but at most circuits today, there are penalties to the trainer and/or owner who's horse is found in a kill pen. From every purse earned by a race horse owner, a fee for horse rescue is deducted. I know of no owners and trainers who aren't interested in a good home for their ex-racer and most do a good job finding them homes. Of course some go through the motions for their own purpose and give the horse away to the nice person who loves horses and will bring him home to his farm to live a wonderful life. He throws him in his van and goes right to the kill pen. Good news is, since they have these new penalties it encourages those owners who went through the motions just to clear their conscience....to now dig deeper and make sure his ex-racer gets where they said he will go, or be denied stalls if said horse is found in the kill pen. It is the responsibility of every horse owner from every breed and genre to see to it they take care of their own. If each owner did this that would be a good beginning. I know they are trying in the racing industry....are they trying in other industry's? Currently there are over 9 million horses in America reported by their owners to the American Horse Council in the summer of 2005. Your guess is as good as mine as to who never responded to this consensus and how many there might be now 8 years later? Bottom line...anyone who owns a horse needs to be responsible for that horse. It begins there....join in. It's started in the racing industry. TJ

[erhrdt3]

TJ, you are an awesome person. Love the information you give. Thank you.

I think because the TB industry is so much in the news, and the stallion reps literally are like well groomed salesmen, and of course this is a TB forum, I brought those points up. I am shameless in my thoughts about not doing the constant breeding of a you don't know what, and also that the breeder must be responsible. You sound like one of those great people TJ!

A large group of people and politicians and I stood in front of the entrance to the former IL plant, and thus stopped the trucks from coming in. They closed down. A rescue group was there also and took the horses, and it turned out some of them were "horseknapped" right out of their own paddocks as it was happening alot around here while the place was open. I believe it was because the plant WAS open and therefore these horsethieves would do this to make money. There was even a little girls smaller horse, a pretty little paint, on there and she had been crying her eyes out for this pony! That is terrible.

As far as the wild ones, instead of killing them for just being born, they should and CAN initiate a "birth control" if you will, of these. I saw this very subject on a show on the Animal Planet a few years back. (If the current administration in Washington can waste money, 27 MILLION dollars to study Morracan clay pots, surely they can take care of part of America's history!)

The bottom line: if you are going to create, be responsible for your actions! Don't just let these living feeling creatures be brutally slaughtered, and it is brutal, those captive bolts do not always do the job, and be RESPONSIBLE horsemen and women. We are able to do it and its the ones that are guilty of doing it are usually the first ones to make a snide comment and act like its not happening or there is nothing wrong with it.

As I said before, those who do this, are guilty of this practice need to accompany their horses to the plant and watch what happens. Perhaps then they would certainly come to their senses. All they care about is money in their pockets and the saying is "money is the root of all evil" and in this case, it cannot be more true.

Thanks again TJ!!

[erhrdt3]

Why are you trying to tell people what to do with their money? They are the one's who pay the upkeep on the mares, pay the stud fees and pay the vet bills.

Do you honestly believe a mare standing in a field is capable of thinking that she's had a few too many foals and she'd like a year off?

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah....

So you then agree that you are breeding away, year after year, and not being responsible for your actions, kind of like young babies are, they don't know what they are doing and have to learn.

What I SAID was that just because a mare is NOT pregnant does NOT mean she needs to be pregnant every year!!!! She cannot help it anymore than the poor racer who may not get the wins all the time but get shot up with everything and anything just to make the poor animal run for money hungry skunks that do not care for them! Then when the poor mare, who has given birth numerous times, cannot do so any longer, they are discarded like trash! I believe the word is "culled/killed" You think that's right?!?!

We are proud that we ARE responsible for every horse we have. We have a gorgeous Spec. Bid mare that will never be bred again, despite her producing some good runners as she is over 20 now. We truly care for the animal. You care for them as they should be, instead of feeding the meat plants like you obviously seem to think, and the amount of thousands upon thousands of horses per year will go down. The horses will reward you as well.

Some people bring up money right away like you did. Lifes before money. Sorry.

[Tappiano]

I bet that 20 year old mare would beg to differ with you.... she is programmed to reproduce and if she had her way she'd do it until she stops cycling. You cannot humanize a horse!

[erhrdt3]

Oh I beg to differ, breed breed breeder, oh one of the slaughter plants!

She gives birth to extremely LARGE foals, and the last two times, like poor Rachel Alexandra, we had to take her to the horse vet on an emergency in the middle of the night. To see this large animal lifted up like a rabbit so that the weight coming down would help the baby come out was something I never thought I'd see. We decided to never risk her life again! You see, unlike yourself, we CARE about the animals, and she has rewarded us with some great looking foals, 17hh, and now she is very healthy, very happy, and is the "leader of the pack" so to say! You can see how she shows the youngsters about, and they follow her around as if she is the teacher. When it came time for the babies to get their larger halters on, she was right there, showing them it was ok. These animals are thinking caring individuals.

To say these animals do not have emotion, feeling, teaching abilities, is beyond me. To think that they are 'throwaway' items is WRONG, and if you are one of these skunks who do this to them, you are WRONG. Killing innocents is not the answer, reducing the size of the annual output is, same as any industry.
And as I mentoned before, this IS a TB forum so I'm going after the TB chronic breeders. You CAN be in this industry and you CAN care for the animals and happy animals make happy foals. Plus you know you did nothing bad to God's creatures when the day comes to go meet your maker.

[pfrsue]

"culled" (rhymes with killed)

I don't think they actually rhyme. They're alliterative, not rhyming.

Nor are they synonymous. A mare culled out of a high dollar breeding program might easily go to a smaller breeder. From a smaller breeder, she might go for a riding horse or become a pasture potato/babysitter. It depends on the circumstances.

Of course I'm not naive enough to think that many don't come to tragic ends, but I would stop very short of accusing any person currently on this forum of not being personally invested in, or responsible about, their horses.

[erhrdt3]

Hi Sue,

first, I really don't care if they perfectly rhyme or not, to me, they are too close in reality, so to me that means the same.

We all know that most older mares do not have hardly a snowball's chance in hell of becoming a riding horse, sure, there MAY be some kindhearted folks out there, but the rescue organizations are having such a hard time due to the chronic breeding year after year of more and more horses. There's enough already!

And I did not at all in any way accuse EVERYONE of being of those that breed breed breed and feed the slaughterhouses. Someone piped up with a smart alec remark, as is usually done on this forum, so usually when someone sticks up for that, I have to take it as they are of that thought process. Money, money, money....you know what I mean.

And no, I do not think you are in that category, nor many others. But there are many bad ones in the pool.

Thanks...

ps: love the paint horse you have on your picture, is that beauty yours?

[erhrdt3]

Also, I wish I would have taken photos of the day that cute little girl got her paint pony back from the horseknappers. She was crying her eyes out, only this time for happiness and that pony ran around the paddock they had for him, kicking up his heels, running and jumping the little fences they had for joy, and he KNEW he was back home. So someone try to tell me these animals have no feelings????

The sheriff's office in my county were constantly getting nightly calls of jerks stealing horses so someone's beloved could go to the slaughterhouse so they could make money.

That day is a day I will take with me forever, and as a true animal lover of all kinds, I will never, EVER, agree with the people who are creating this problem. Whenever I mention horseracing to someone, they bring up slaughter and horsemeat burgers, or Bernadini Burgers as someone called them!! Oh my!!

This is why this industry is in serious trouble. Not to mention the overbreeding of extremely fragile horses that break down so much.

[Tappiano]

Oh I beg to differ, breed breed breeder, oh one of the slaughter plants!

She gives birth to extremely LARGE foals, and the last two times, like poor Rachel Alexandra, we had to take her to the horse vet on an emergency in the middle of the night. To see this large animal lifted up like a rabbit so that the weight coming down would help the baby come out was something I never thought I'd see. We decided to never risk her life again! You see, unlike yourself, we CARE about the animals, and she has rewarded us with some great looking foals, 17hh, and now she is very healthy, very happy, and is the "leader of the pack" so to say! You can see how she shows the youngsters about, and they follow her around as if she is the teacher. When it came time for the babies to get their larger halters on, she was right there, showing them it was ok. These animals are thinking caring individuals.

To say these animals do not have emotion, feeling, teaching abilities, is beyond me. To think that they are 'throwaway' items is WRONG, and if you are one of these skunks who do this to them, you are WRONG. Killing innocents is not the answer, reducing the size of the annual output is, same as any industry.
And as I mentoned before, this IS a TB forum so I'm going after the TB chronic breeders. You CAN be in this industry and you CAN care for the animals and happy animals make happy foals. Plus you know you did nothing bad to God's creatures when the day comes to go meet your maker.

Are you threatening me? I'd strongly suggest you find someone who can break down into very simple terms what this forum is and is not because issuing threats against anyone is not only unwarranted on this forum but is illegal in most states.

[Pan Zareta]

Oh I beg to differ, breed breed breeder, oh one of the slaughter plants!

She gives birth to extremely LARGE foals, and the last two times, like poor Rachel Alexandra, we had to take her to the horse vet on an emergency in the middle of the night. To see this large animal lifted up like a rabbit so that the weight coming down would help the baby come out was something I never thought I'd see. We decided to never risk her life again! You see, unlike yourself, we CARE about the animals, and she has rewarded us with some great looking foals, 17hh, and now she is very healthy, very happy, and is the "leader of the pack" so to say! You can see how she shows the youngsters about, and they follow her around as if she is the teacher. When it came time for the babies to get their larger halters on, she was right there, showing them it was ok. These animals are thinking caring individuals.

To say these animals do not have emotion, feeling, teaching abilities, is beyond me. To think that they are 'throwaway' items is WRONG, and if you are one of these skunks who do this to them, you are WRONG. Killing innocents is not the answer, reducing the size of the annual output is, same as any industry.
And as I mentoned before, this IS a TB forum so I'm going after the TB chronic breeders. You CAN be in this industry and you CAN care for the animals and happy animals make happy foals. Plus you know you did nothing bad to God's creatures when the day comes to go meet your maker.

The ad hominem presuppositions as expressed in your posts here and in other threads are inappropriate, irrelevant, and obnoxious.

My interest in equine welfare is not defined by breed. No argument that the number of all horses including TBs bred in the USA greatly exceeds demand and that issue must be addressed but until no horses are being sold for slaughter here do you really think that it's doing those that are so purchased a favor by forcing them onto a truck headed across one of the borders?

[erhrdt3]

Oh I beg to differ, breed breed breeder, oh one of the slaughter plants!

She gives birth to extremely LARGE foals, and the last two times, like poor Rachel Alexandra, we had to take her to the horse vet on an emergency in the middle of the night. To see this large animal lifted up like a rabbit so that the weight coming down would help the baby come out was something I never thought I'd see. We decided to never risk her life again! You see, unlike yourself, we CARE about the animals, and she has rewarded us with some great looking foals, 17hh, and now she is very healthy, very happy, and is the "leader of the pack" so to say! You can see how she shows the youngsters about, and they follow her around as if she is the teacher. When it came time for the babies to get their larger halters on, she was right there, showing them it was ok. These animals are thinking caring individuals.

To say these animals do not have emotion, feeling, teaching abilities, is beyond me. To think that they are 'throwaway' items is WRONG, and if you are one of these skunks who do this to them, you are WRONG. Killing innocents is not the answer, reducing the size of the annual output is, same as any industry.
And as I mentoned before, this IS a TB forum so I'm going after the TB chronic breeders. You CAN be in this industry and you CAN care for the animals and happy animals make happy foals. Plus you know you did nothing bad to God's creatures when the day comes to go meet your maker.

Are you threatening me? I'd strongly suggest you find someone who can break down into very simple terms what this forum is and is not because issuing threats against anyone is not only unwarranted on this forum but is illegal in most states.

LOL, there is no way a threat, I simply explained to you about your smart alec comment YOU brought up. You can help, and not harm these majestic animals, everyone can.

I have been told by many this is the most snobbish forum, but I appreciate the moderators, and I appreciate people like Dublino, and TJ, Karen, Madelyn, Diane, and a host of others! I believe one can never have too much knowledge.

The rescue organizations are putting their sweat and blood into saving the animals that careless folks constantly breed, and they take money out of their OWN pockets to provide for these innocent horses. They are truly overwhelmed!! So if you are one of the ones that does not care for those you breed, you should be ashamed of yourself! This is why this industry has a bad, bad, mark on it, and when that house opens up there will be an outcry. If you care more for money the horses make you than the actual animals themselves, in my opinon, you do not deserve them, and you are making it very hard on the good people on here and the rescue barns.

I am a God fearing person. I believe we are all judged when the day comes when we get old or sick or both, and hopefully go to Heaven. May I also remind you that our new Pope, Pope Francis, took his name from the Saint Francis who was the caretaker of the sick and poor and of the animals. If you don't believe me, I'm sure others know this, or look it up, might do you well.

[erhrdt3]

Also, in no way, shape or form, do I agree with sending OUR horses that were purposely bred over the borders! As someone who works with the rescue groups, we are aware of what these "people" do to innocent animals.

The answer: don't breed so many darned horses!!! I have been reminded in the past we are on a TB forum, so therefore I am keeping on topic about TB's. I just rec'd a call again from someone wanting to bring my mare to their "one of a kind" stalliion! HA! American stallions are fragile, and the last time I bred my mare (her filly is with us forever) to a stallion that is sound and has a good record and raced with no drugs. He is getting up in age, so I am glad I have a daughter of his, and she will be with us forever.

So if you are guilty, then you strike out. It's so very apparent. Go to the slaughter house and watch YOUR horse get killed, I guarantee you will change your money hungry minds.

Many thanks to all the moderators, the FRIENDLY folks on here, and keep on keepin' on, as they say. Truly I believe that most of you do care for the welfare of your horses but as they say, there is always a few bad turds floating around in the swimming pool LOL

[docjocoy]

Oh I beg to differ, breed breed breeder, oh one of the slaughter plants!

She gives birth to extremely LARGE foals, and the last two times, like poor Rachel Alexandra, we had to take her to the horse vet on an emergency in the middle of the night. To see this large animal lifted up like a rabbit so that the weight coming down would help the baby come out was something I never thought I'd see. We decided to never risk her life again! You see, unlike yourself, we CARE about the animals, and she has rewarded us with some great looking foals, 17hh, and now she is very healthy, very happy, and is the "leader of the pack" so to say! You can see how she shows the youngsters about, and they follow her around as if she is the teacher. When it came time for the babies to get their larger halters on, she was right there, showing them it was ok. These animals are thinking caring individuals.

To say these animals do not have emotion, feeling, teaching abilities, is beyond me. To think that they are 'throwaway' items is WRONG, and if you are one of these skunks who do this to them, you are WRONG. Killing innocents is not the answer, reducing the size of the annual output is, same as any industry.
And as I mentoned before, this IS a TB forum so I'm going after the TB chronic breeders. You CAN be in this industry and you CAN care for the animals and happy animals make happy foals. Plus you know you did nothing bad to God's creatures when the day comes to go meet your maker.

Are you threatening me? I'd strongly suggest you find someone who can break down into very simple terms what this forum is and is not because issuing threats against anyone is not only unwarranted on this forum but is illegal in most states.

LOL, there is no way a threat, I simply explained to you about your smart alec comment YOU brought up. You can help, and not harm these majestic animals, everyone can.

I have been told by many this is the most snobbish forum, but I appreciate the moderators, and I appreciate people like Dublino, and TJ, Karen, Madelyn, Diane, and a host of others! I believe one can never have too much knowledge.

The rescue organizations are putting their sweat and blood into saving the animals that careless folks constantly breed, and they take money out of their OWN pockets to provide for these innocent horses. They are truly overwhelmed!! So if you are one of the ones that does not care for those you breed, you should be ashamed of yourself! This is why this industry has a bad, bad, mark on it, and when that house opens up there will be an outcry. If you care more for money the horses make you than the actual animals themselves, in my opinon, you do not deserve them, and you are making it very hard on the good people on here and the rescue barns.

I am a God fearing person. I believe we are all judged when the day comes when we get old or sick or both, and hopefully go to Heaven. May I also remind you that our new Pope, Pope Francis, took his name from the Saint Francis who was the caretaker of the sick and poor and of the animals. If you don't believe me, I'm sure others know this, or look it up, might do you well.

Oh for heaven's sake enough already! You have made your point, you don't know when to stop. Do you ever read other threads on this forum? Tappiano has one mare which she breeds occasionally. That's it.
You keep going and going and eventually you say something outrageous which leads to some of these posts that challenge you.

I don't think this is a snobby forum. We have some "wise guys" here which frankly makes the discussions more interesting. You have to be able to tell the difference between snobby, snarky, sarcasm, or wit. Nobody here likes to be shouted at, which you do all the time.