Rasmussen factor

[stancaris]

Jazil, the winner and Sunriver the third place finisher were the only two horses in this years Belmont who had the RF factor.
Jazil has Traffic Court top and bottom and Sunriver has Almamoud and Cosmah top and bottom. Horses with the Rf factor have done quite well in the Classic races.

[louis finochio]

Sunriver has 9 crosses of NP, 7 crosses of PH.

Sunriver is line-bred 3 X 5 to the foundation mare Cosmah Phalaris sire line.

Sunriver is line-bred 4 X 5 to the foundation mare Almahmoud Swynford sire line.

Jazil has 10 crosses of NP, 6 crosses of PH.

Jazil is line-bred 5 X 5 to the mare Traffic Court Fair Play sire line.

When a TB breeder doubles up and line-breeds to the mares, you will get colts with small filly heads, which both Sunriver and Jazil have inherited.

[Keith]

Bluegrass Cat is 5x6x7 Somethingroyal and 6x6 Glamour

Keith

[Timber]

[quote="louis finochio"]Sunriver has 9 crosses of NP, 7 crosses of PH.
[/quote]

Dunno who NP is, but Sunriver has 13 crosses of Phalaris in 9 generations for a 5x5 equivalent.

[DoubleDownStables]

I believe to have the RF, you need to reach the reine de course mare through two different offspring, so Bluegrass Cat wouldn't meet the criteria.

[louis finochio]

Timber: NP = Non-Phalaris, I only use the 5 generation pedigree to count the sire lines. I hope this helps your figures.

[halo]

I would be far more inclined to believe that both horses being by 2 of the top producing stallions of our time out of stakes winning and/or stakes producing mares has more to do with their quality than the Rasmussen factor.

[moccasin]

The RF is only found in about 4% of all Thoroughbreds, according to the definitive book on the subject "Inbreeding to Superior Females" by Rommy Faversham and the late Leon Rasmussen.

So, the fact that the first three finishers in the Belmont Stakes either have the RF or their dam is an RF is astounding.

There is a story on the Rasmussen Factor in Thursday's DRF.

[louis finochio]

As TB breeders hope to produce the big horse, the RF in combo with those superior and leading stallions and mares would be a big plus.

I am looking forward to seeing BOY and blue hen Toussaud double up in a few years time, as we have seen in Natalma.

[ragsdaj1]

I would be interested to know how many "named" breeding patterns there are.

Thanks,

JonR

[halo]

So you mean to tell me that the Rasmussen followers are claiming Jazil is what he is because of a duplication of a mare 5 generations back? Jazil is the product of 2 of the strongest mare lines in the stud book, that of Broadway and Stolen Hour; he is arguably one of the best bred horses running right now.

Now if he were obscurely bred and was a grade 1 winner with this duplication, I might find it more interesting, and remotely possible. But every case that they claim as their own has been a very highly bred horse. At this point I find the Rasmussen factor a stretch at best.

[louis finochio]

If you own a mare that is double RF to Natalma, those screeners of mares would accept your mare to be bred to their stallion on the strength of double up Natalma even if the mares sire was a middle of the road stallion.

A strong female family will over come a weak stallion.

[halo]

Louis, RF has nothing to do with female family. It has to do with duplications in the pedigree. Jazil has a double to some mare...Traffic Court maybe? But his female family is back to Late Date.
And if you think having a mare that is Rasmussen factor to Natalma will get you into a top stallions book, think again.

[Paris Hill]

Only time will tell but i have been experimenting with the RF with my mare who's 3rd dam is Exclusive. Her 1st foal is by Millennium Wind which gets me a 5X5 Good Example. 2nd foal is by Saarland giving me a 5X4 Exclusive. She is in foal now to Prime Timber (a complete outcross). Going to go to Belong To Me next which will give me a 4X4 Exclusive. I may throw in another complete outcross after the Belong To me, and then go back to the RF and keep on going along with my experiment. Will obviously take some time to see what happens here but so far if nothing else the Millennium Wind and Saarland are both very well put together foals and all i can do now is keep my fingers crossed!

[louis finochio]

To Paris Hill: I like your game plan, when you inbred or line-bred and the performance of offspring is still on its game, then your game plan is working.

When their is a drop off in performance, its time for an outcross. After the outcross is made you must breed back to the original family.

The results in performance will guide you in your future matings.

Their is an old thread titled, The 7 commandments of Breeding, Author Louis Finochio. It will give you info about the subject of inbreeding and outcrossing.