Might a Triple Crown race ever be downgraded from G1 status?

[FOS]

hi guys

I watched yesterday's G1-Belmont Stakes and did not get a sense that I saw a field worthy of G1 status...much less a G1 caliber horserace.

That said...I ask...

...what are the chances that a U.S. Triple Crown horserace might ever be downgraded from G1 status?

Respectfully

[Georgerz]

None, imho.

[ragsdaj1]

sounds like a case for no G1 horses to particpate than a G1 race downgraded. Might be better to cancel an event than to run it for g2 & g3 horse?

I dont necessarily agree that there needs to be a Triple Crown bonus paid, but I would like to see points awarded for G1 races and a bonus paid to high point earner at the end of the season.

[HR LLC]

I doubt the Triple Crown races will ever be downgraded to a Grade 2.

On another note, Jazil ran faster than Afleet Alex, Empire Maker and Sarava in his Belmont win. I dont think Jazil is a great horse but he was impressive yesterday.

[Sam]

...what are the chances that a U.S. Triple Crown horserace might ever be downgraded from G1 status?

Never happen (though it probably should). Name me one classic anywhere in the world that isn't a G1. Down grade it and you essentially tell the world that you think your 3yos aren't worthy of having their most important races ranked as the most important races.

Personally, I think the grading system is a joke and needs to be completely revised. I don't think age/gender restricted races (excluding 2yo races) should be granted the same grade and weighted the same as an Arc, DWC, BC Classic or Melbourne (and don't give me the BS "it's not a restriction, it's a condition" argument -- anything that prevents one horse from running is a RESTRICTION). The ranking of G1 should go only to races that are open to 3yos and up of either gender.

edit reason: fixing a double negative ... damn, that was bad

[LSB]

I watched yesterday's G1-Belmont Stakes and did not get a sense that I saw a field worthy of G1 status...much less a G1 caliber horserace.

That wasn't my impression at all. I thought yesterday's Belmont was filled with good horses--and that they ran a good race.

[austique]

I'd agree with LSB. I think Jazil and Steppenwolfer are already quite nice. Bob and John already has a GR I and Sunriver I think will develop into a nice horse. Granted there were some holes in the field, but there are holes in a lot of GR I fields.

[louis finochio]

Its best to judge this 3 yr. old crop when they face 4 yr. olds and up in the coming months.

The men in high places that made those TC races GR 1, should leave those TC races where they are. As those TB breeders will reap the harvest when that black type appears in those sales catalogs.

With the yearly foal count at 35,000 + theri is no gurantee that their will be a surplus of superior talented runners produced.

Thats why it is and always has been quality over quanity.

[FOS]

hi Sam...hello LSB

Never happen (though it probably should). Name me one classic anywhere in the world that isn't a G1. Down grade it and you essentially tell the world that you think your 3yos aren't worthy of having their most important races ranked as the most important races.

You might be right on target...possibly a bull's-eye, but it would be interesting to see how the Graded Stakes Committee would handle it if and when Belmont Stakes (for example) that arguably do not meet G1 criteria seem to become the rule rather than the exception.

I watched yesterday's G1-Belmont Stakes and did not get a sense that I saw a field worthy of G1 status...much less a G1 caliber horserace.

That wasn't my impression at all. I thought yesterday's Belmont was filled with good horses--and that they ran a good race.

If "good horses" (your words) running a "good race" is a criteria worthy of Grade 1 designation...we'd arguably have a LOADDDD of Grade 1s.

To my way of thinking, Grade 1 status requires Excellence as a threshold...not Good.

That said...I did not sense that Excellence was what the 2006 Belmont offered...maybe Good was.

Best to you.

Respectfully

[louis finochio]

Years ago when the foal crops were two thirds less than they are now, we were producing more quality runners.

The increased number of foals each year is not producing those quality runners.

The reason this is happening is their is too many matings of the same bloodlines in a mating.

When you look at Barbaros sire and dam you will see an example of what can be produced when those outcross matings are made.

Those superior runners of yesteryear were produced from outcross matings. Those TB breeders that believe those 3 X 3 matings of Mr. P and Storm Cat will produce those hybrid and sound individuals are chasing a paper tiger.

Some years TB breeders will have a vintage year that produces those superior runners. When the years are lean it is not time to down grade those GR 1 races to GR 2.

[Sam]

Never happen (though it probably should). Name me one classic anywhere in the world that isn't a G1. Down grade it and you essentially tell the world that you think your 3yos aren't worthy of having their most important races ranked as the most important races.

You might be right on target...possibly a bull's-eye, but it would be interesting to see how the Graded Stakes Committee would handle it if and when Belmont Stakes (for example) that arguably do not meet G1 criteria seem to become the rule rather than the exception.

The Triple Crown races and Breeders' Cup races will always be G1s. That'll never change unless they are discontinued. I doubt you will see any other races that consistently put out G3 horses ranked as G1 races. The committee is pretty good about downgrading most races. The Belmont/Preakness will pretty much always be an exception, not the rule, and there won't be all that many other races like them.

As for excellence being a barometer of G1 status, you need to lower your standards. I've not seen too many 3yos I would consider "Great" in my lifetime. I can probably count them all on one hand and have fingers left over. I don't think "Excellent" is the descriptor I would be looking for in a Belmont runner, and you won't find it in American 3yos running a mile and a half anyway. Not anymore. The Belmont has long since become a race of attrition. 99.9999% of the horses that run in it nowadays will NEVER run that far again. Hell, most of them won't ever run 10 furlongs again. All you can hope for anymore is that the winner comes out of it to win a few more high ranked stakes and that half the field doesn't fade away into obscurity. But then, most of the Derby field has a tendency to fade away too.

[UK Breeder (19)]

Just for all your information, the German 2,000 Guineas, a classic race, is only a Gr.2, and has never been a Gr.1.
That said, I can't think that any classic that is already a Gr.1, will ever be downgraded. And to be fair, this year may just be an off year, and cannot base downgrading on this one year.

[Sam]

Just for all your information, the German 2,000 Guineas, a classic race, is only a Gr.2, and has never been a Gr.1.

Thanks for that. I figured there had to be one, I just couldn't think of one. Though, I would have guessed it was in South America or Asia if there were one.

[ragsdaj1]

The Grand Slam of Grass includes a G3.

[Sam]

The Grand Slam of Grass includes a G3.

If you're talking about hte trio at Arlington, those aren't "Classics"

The only "Classics" in the USA are the Derby, Preakness and Belmont