Claiming Thoroughbreds

[fletch621]

Hi everyone, I wasn't sure what part of the forum this should be posted under, but was just wondering if anyone has read Tom Ivers' "Complete Guide to Claiming Thoroughbreds" book. I have started reading the information he puts forward concerning horse physiology, training, and nutrition and was wondering what anyone else thinks of what he has to say? I am still very new to the world of horse racing, but from a human athlete standpoint it all makes sense (a good friend of mine majored in exercise physiology at Southern Illinois and confirms it). The thing I find intriguing is his recommendations of racing a horse every 5 to 10 days and his work-out theories. Any thoughts or comments?

Jason

[austique]

We personally went on the 14 to 21 day schedule with a few easy works in between (and galloping of course). If your horse is running regularly, he'll stay fairly fit on his own and just needs some tuning to figure out where he is.

[horsenuts]

Hi everyone, I wasn't sure what part of the forum this should be posted under, but was just wondering if anyone has read Tom Ivers' "Complete Guide to Claiming Thoroughbreds" book. I have started reading the information he puts forward concerning horse physiology, training, and nutrition and was wondering what anyone else thinks of what he has to say? I am still very new to the world of horse racing, but from a human athlete standpoint it all makes sense (a good friend of mine majored in exercise physiology at Southern Illinois and confirms it). The thing I find intriguing is his recommendations of racing a horse every 5 to 10 days and his work-out theories. Any thoughts or comments?

Jason

I knew/know people(students/professors etc. at Texas A&M) that worked with him when he was putting his book together on interval training and equine exercise and nutrition. Frankly, they were not impressed with Mr Ivers though he was an excellent self-promoter who was quick to use what others discovered in this arena while not giving said party credit. From my experience i'd put little creedence in anything he has written or published... though there are some useful ideas.

As far as claiming horses it is similar to playing the stock market. Some folks are better at it than others.. one thing that really is beneficial is to hire a successful "claiming trainer" if that is what you want to do(claim horses). Generally, you are better off to claim a horse "on the rise" than "on the descent" i.e I would recommend claiming a horse for say $15,000 that just won for $10,000 than to claim a horse in the same race that is dropping down from $20,000 into the same $15,000 that ran 4th in his last start though there is always the exception.

As for Ivers "interval training" etc.... very few horses especially everday claiming horses can stand up to the rigors of interval training. What looks good on paper simply doesn't translate into reality of the thoroughbred or any horse for that matter. I have witnessed several people implement interval training with little success and often do damage to said horse(s).

OTOH, I have seen many thoroughbreds claimed and receive NO TRAINING other than being turned out in a pen or paddock due to "soreness" and other problems. Many of these horses immediately began to run much improved from a regime of basically of "rest and relaxation" as opposed to the daily grind of training in the conventional manner. These horses all had one common trait... they all had a little bit of ability(some more than others) and benefitted from "R&R". By NOT training them they aleviated much of the soreness and ailments they were afflicted with. A horse that has a bit of class with infirmities that runs every few weeks generally doesn't need much training and in fact said training is often detrimental. Much like a good football player that is getting a little long in the tooth he is best rested for his performance on Sunday and does little in the way of physical practice during the week.

As for nutrition... it is always changing as new methods and findings are ever changing. Today, many trainers are no longer feed horses hay but rather pelleted cubes and claim to have far fewer colic cases and less breathing problems. If you're interested on the latest in equine nutrion and physiology I'd recommend contacting some of the leading equine universities and pick their brains including: Texas A&M/Ohio State/Iowa State and Kansas State for starters.

[fletch621]

Austique, Horsenuts... thank you both for your input. As I said before I am just starting to learn what I can about thoroughbred racing and am just trying to get as much information as I can from what sources I can... always best to understand the points of view of multiple people. Horsenuts, I will certainly look to other sources of information after I am done with this book... this is just the start of what I am sure will be a very long period of learning.

Thanks.

[halo]

Re-read horsenuts' post. One of the best ever posted here.

[Pierre LP]

agreed that Horsenuts post is excellent.

Here in the UK I find that some horses need very little work between races and just need to "tick over" whereas "stuffier" horses need several pieces of work between races. Many horses have a yearly break. They are all individuals and we assess each horse to find the best training regime.

I claim a few horses, but the claiming system in the UK is different and we have far fewer claiming races

[henthorn]

I am both a racehorse owner and a stock market trader. Trading in the market is very similar to what successful claiming trainers/owners do. They research the fundamentals of the horse, try to buy it at an appropriate price while it's on its way up, and sell when it's topped out.
I have been learning the stock trading to help me be better at the business of horses as well.

The worst thing to do with racing a claiming stable is to consider each horse as a long-term investment. Each layoff, veterinary procedure, overmatched race costs value and increases the net cash outflow. Most claimers are not profitable, so the secret to success seems to be to have the right timing and selection of races, and to know when to sell at the proper time.

You can take good care of the horses when they are in your charge, and not feel guilty that you can't keep them all.

[louis finochio]

Hi Henthorn: I am also a stock market trader, and I love calling my own shots. In a roller coaster market that is happening today a trader has to have nerves of ice.

Fletch 21: Before you claim a TB, take a knowledgeable trainer with you as their are many roads that lead to Rome, and the trainer can tell you which road to take.

[fletch621]

Thank you all for the input you have provided. I very much like the comparison of stock trading to the claiming game... makes good sense. Louis, I know what you mean about a good trainer... I don't want the Yes man looking for day rates, I'll do my best to search out the trainer who truley cares about winning and is willing to "take a pass" on a horse that I have my eye on if he feels there are major issues with the horse. The area of horse physiology and biomechanics has really started to fascinate me and Google has only been somewhat helpful. Are there any good books, papers, websites, etc. that anyone could recommend concerning these topics? Thanks to all!

Jason