Bernardini - the best horse of the past 50 years???

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saintlyCZ
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Bernardini - the best horse of the past 50 years???

Postby saintlyCZ » Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:09 pm

This sentence (translated to English according to its meaning, maybe not word to word):
"American consider Bernardini to be the best horse over the past fifty years."
appeared in the article about Breeders' Cup, written by one of Czech turf writers. I was pretty shocked, as I've never read anything like that (although I must admit, I have only time to read headlines and full chart results now) and personally, I consider Bernardini to be very good horse, but not the best over some years - and even fifty!!!

So I would like to ask - not whether Bernardini really is the best horse over the past fifty years, it may be personal opinion of every racing fan; but whether there were some discussions or headlines or something like that? Or where, what the hell, that dear turf writer took it? :shock:
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Postby wilf » Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:54 pm

Perhaps the writing source was mis-translated, the horse is a great talent and its a crying shame that he was not allowed to mature and race as a 4yr old, however any racing follower over the past 50 years would not mention him in the same breath as Kelso, Spectacular Bid, Affirmed, Seattle Slew or Big Red. Sorry!!!

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Postby majxmom » Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:21 pm

He's just a pretender now to me! Just another well-managed three year old flash in the pan.
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Postby FOS » Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:48 pm

hi wilf...hi saintlyCZ

saintlyCZ wrote:This sentence (translated to English according to its meaning, maybe not word to word):

"American consider Bernardini to be the best horse over the past fifty years." appeared in the article about Breeders' Cup, written by one of Czech turf writers. I was pretty shocked, as I've never read anything like that (although I must admit, I have only time to read headlines and full chart results now) and personally, I consider Bernardini to be very good horse, but not the best over some years - and even fifty!!!

So I would like to ask - not whether Bernardini really is the best horse over the past fifty years, it may be personal opinion of every racing fan; but whether there were some discussions or headlines or something like that? Or where, what the hell, that dear turf writer took it?

I have not heard nor read nor can I even think of even one serious turf writer who might say/write anything that might be construed (by any stretch of the imagination) that "American consider Bernardini to be the best horse over the past fifty years." (as was written in your message above).

wilf wrote:Perhaps the writing source was mis-translated, the horse is a great talent and its a crying shame that he was not allowed to mature and race as a 4yr old, however any racing follower over the past 50 years would not mention him in the same breath as Kelso, Spectacular Bid, Affirmed, Seattle Slew or Big Red. Sorry!!!

Bull's-eye.

When truly GREAT racehorses are mentioned/discussed I believe (for starters) that Dr Fager's name MUST be included.

Best to you.

Respectfully

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Postby Stevie Belmont » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:26 pm

He had the potential to be, than again several over the past couple of years could have been. He was great while he ran, but can't be considered a great based on his 3 year old year alone.

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saintlyCZ
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Postby saintlyCZ » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:01 am

Personally, I'm not infirming Bernardini's talent, his potential, abbilities or anything else; it's hard to do so after his performances. And despite I'm a great fan of Lava Man, I always considered Bernardini to be fantastic-looking horse with a lot of talent.
But when thinking of how many great horses ran during the past fifty years... I just feel it's irrelevant to consider Bernardini THAT good.
And there was no mis-translation, you can be sure.
However, this turf writer has a reputation of a man who can write great articles (I've read his BC reports from 1998 and 99 and it was really reading for long winter evenings!), but also great nonsenses. I remember his article from June 2001, where he wrote about Kentucky Derby, and he was able to write that Hero's Tribute was a "stable star" over Monarchos...
All in all, every turf writer can have his own opinion. I also have my own judgements and sometimes they differ a lot from general meaning. But the problem is that this man is the only turf writer for the most popular horse magazine here, so his opinions are really widespread... And how to explain twelve year old little fans reading his article that Bernardini was good, but there were horses like Secretariat, Ruffian, Kelso... ?
Avatar: This wonderful horse is my big love: Czech-bred horse Heretic, son of fantastic sire Rainbows for Life out of great dam Hairy Dream.

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Postby zinn21 » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:57 am

Bernardini is a very nice horse but he failed to beat Invasor in the Classic who was beaten earlier in the year by a three year old... I don't think he's even a top twenty all time best horse.

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Postby vineyridge » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:43 am

He probably wasn't even the best 3 year old of 2006. We never got to see a Bernardini/ Barbaro race, but my money would have been on Barbaro. Bernardini didn't run in either the Kentucky Derby OR the Belmont. Not going to the Belmont after winning the Preakness indicates to me that his people didnt have a lot of confidence in him.

Best in 50 years? :roll: Not even the best in 2006 or the best 3 year old of 2006.
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Postby geowarrior » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:05 pm

Not only did Bernardini not win the Classic but he didn't win it in a pretty slow time (winning time slowest since 1994). And yes, the shadow of Barbaro is still there. Bernardini was never tested in a race against older horses till the Classic and he was never really in a hard tussle against other horses at any time. Some of the great horses of the last fifty years have shown their class in the races they've lost, e.g. Seattle Slew's loss to Exceller. That race, conversely, convinced many people that Seattle Slew was a great horse because when the test came he did not give up. I don't know that Bernardini gave up in the Classic, but it certainly wasn't one of those 'great' losses.

I agree about Dr. Fager, world record for a mile under a very high weight, multiple category award winner, and another horse, seconding Wilf's opinion, that I'd rate much, much higher than Bernardini is Spectacular Bid.

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Postby FOS » Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:18 am

hi geowarrior

geowarrior wrote:Some of the great horses of the last fifty years have shown their class in the races they've lost, e.g. Seattle Slew's loss to Exceller.

Agreed!!!

Exceller's Jockey Club Gold Cup win over Seattle Slew was (from my perspective) a horserace for the ages. To my way of thinking, two thoroughbred racing GREATS gave EVERYTHING they had...and delivered two of the most compelling performances I've ever seen between two superstar athletes.

geowarrior wrote:That race, conversely, convinced many people that Seattle Slew was a great horse because when the test came he did not give up.

He reached down for more...seemingly for every fiber, everything that was in his being. The same could be said of Exceller.

geowarrior wrote:I don't know that Bernardini gave up in the Classic, but it certainly wasn't one of those 'great' losses.

It looked that way to me too.

geowarrior wrote:I agree about Dr. Fager, world record for a mile under a very high weight, multiple category award winner, and another horse, seconding Wilf's opinion, that I'd rate much, much higher than Bernardini is Spectacular Bid.

Now those were two MONSTERS...Dr Fager and Spectacular Bid. WOW!!!

That said, I suggest that had the Bid and Bernardini been contemporaries (and assuming both were at their 100% best)...I cannot imagine (by any stretch of the imagination) any (incident-free) horserace whatsoever in which Bernardini could have outrun Spectacular Bid. Very simply...I cannot imagine Bernardini outrunning Spectacular Bid...EVER.

Spectacular Bid was (to my way of thinking) an honest to goodness GREAT GREAT GREAT racehorse.

Respectfully

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Postby parlo » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:46 am

Eclipse-worthy year for team Barbaro
By ANDREW BEYER

WASHINGTON - When voters cast their ballots for the 2006 Eclipse Awards, they will confront one decision that might come down to a choice between sentiment and logic. Who should be the champion 3-year-old - Barbaro or Bernardini?

Barbaro, of course, was a national hero. He won the Kentucky Derby by the largest margin in 50 years before his career came to an abrupt and horrifying end in the Preakness. After he shattered his leg, his subsequent surgery and fight for survival became the biggest story of the year in horse racing. He was an object of universal sympathy. Americans who have never heard of Bernardini or Invasor (the certain Horse of the Year for 2006) know who Barbaro is.

Bernardini's 5 1/4-length victory in the Preakness received little acclaim because of the favorite's mishap. But he proceeded to win the Jim Dandy Stakes by nine lengths, the Travers by 7 1/2, and the Jockey Club Gold Cup by six - all with consummate ease. Earning acclaim as a superstar, he was heavily favored to win the Breeders' Cup Classic and the Horse of the Year title. However, his disappointing second-place finish behind Invasor in the Classic prompted a re-examination of his achievements.

Yes, Bernardini looked overpowering when he scored his victories, but it's easy for a horse to look impressive when he faces negligible opposition. Bernardini never had a formidable challenge before the Breeders' Cup. His victory in the Gold Cup came when he was a 1-5 favorite against three rivals. His loss to Invasor put his talent in perspective. He was no superstar.

Yet even though Bernardini may have been overrated, I will vote for him as the 3-year-old champion. Barbaro didn't do enough to take the title from him. Barbaro's three wins before the Kentucky Derby were mere tune-ups; he was hard-pressed to defeat an ordinary field in the Florida Derby. His claim to an Eclipse Award rests on a single performance, and that is not enough to trump Bernardini, who captured three important Grade 1 stakes and finished ahead of 11 high-class rivals while running second in the Breeders' Cup.

But there is a way for Eclipse voters to pay tribute to Barbaro indirectly - by conferring honors on his owners, Roy and Gretchen Jackson, and his trainer, Michael Matz.

The Jacksons deserve a pair of Eclipses, in fact - as the outstanding owner and the outstanding breeder. Although they rank behind the two Dubai sheikhs who are the top money-winning owners in the U.S., the Jacksons' relatively small operation, Lael Stables, campaigned two of the nation's best horses: Barbaro and Showing Up, the top 3-year-old turf runner. And they bred George Washington, the star miler in Europe.

No one would dispute that Matz did a masterful job of preparing Barbaro for the Kentucky Derby, defying precedent by bringing the colt into the race after a five-week layoff. Matz had an outstanding year overall, climaxing the season by winning the Breeders' Cup Distaff with Round Pond.

Still, can Matz deserve a title in a year when Todd Pletcher won a record number of graded stakes races and more than $27 million in purses?

Many voters look at the leading money-winners in various categories and mark their Eclipse ballots accordingly. Those who do so may as well give the Eclipse Award as leading trainer to Pletcher in perpetuity. His stable is so large and powerful that on Jan. 1, 2006, he was a virtual cinch to win more money during the year than any other trainer. He will do it again in 2007. Pletcher does a remarkable job managing his far-flung operation, but this year he failed conspicuously in the races that usually decide championships.

After nominating a record 38 horses to the Triple Crown series, he was again blanked in the 3-year-old classics. In the Breeders' Cup events he went 0 for 17. Matz was 1 for 1. I want to honor Matz and the Jacksons because their contributions to the game were more meaningful than any numbers suggest. When Barbaro broke his leg at Pimlico, with a nationwide television audience watching, I expected a backlash against the sport. The public at large might have shared the view of many animal-rights activists, that Thoroughbred racing is a heartless and inhumane sport.

But this backlash never materialized, largely because of Matz, the Jacksons, and the veterinary team that cared for Barbaro. Their concern for the horse's well-being was so heartfelt and genuine that their efforts to save the animal came to symbolize the best of Thoroughbred racing. Frank Deford, the esteemed Sports Illustrated writer, nominated the owners and trainer for the magazine's Sportsman of the Year award, writing, "They embroidered their sport with goodness and nobility." In voting for the Eclipse awards, statistics are important, of course, but nobility ought to count for something, too.

(c) 2006 The Washington Post

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Postby Stevie Belmont » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:00 pm

They had tons of confidence. Brother owned Jazil who was in the Derby so they waited till the Preakness. They are shrewd people. As for who would of won between the two? Not fair to either horse to say who would have. Just unfortunate that Barbaro got hurt.

vineyridge wrote:He probably wasn't even the best 3 year old of 2006. We never got to see a Bernardini/ Barbaro race, but my money would have been on Barbaro. Bernardini didn't run in either the Kentucky Derby OR the Belmont. Not going to the Belmont after winning the Preakness indicates to me that his people didnt have a lot of confidence in him.

Best in 50 years? :roll: Not even the best in 2006 or the best 3 year old of 2006.

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Postby Pete » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:31 pm

Hi Folks,

Margin of victory is initially impressive but needs to be evaluated by circumstance.

Affirmed won the Belmont Stakes over Alydar by a scant nose....not Secretariat's rousing 31 length win, but Darby Creek Road (3rd in Affirmed's Belmont) was 13 lengths behind Alydar! Bernardini raced againt a diluted division so his margins of victory aren't compelling.

As observers we now have fewer races to confirm greatness in a horse, perhaps one campaign or 10 races. Strict comparisons to horses of the past will be rare and hard to find and certainly the weight carrying element that added prestige to champions in the past is evaporated.

Bernardini was a fine racing colt, a perfect stallion prospect with pedigree, record and conformation. If he could have been great we won't know but he was good and for the commercial market that's plenty but he was far from the credentials of Ghostzapper. I do believe that he would have finished ahead of Darby Creek Road.

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