Any advice please? Seriously punchy horse! *Updated*

[fort_falcon]

I apologise in advance if I'm posting this in the wrong place, and for the fact that it's pretty long winded......

We have a horse in our yard, Tap On Time (or just Taps). he's 3 years old, and came in off the farm about 5 months ago. He was gelded roughly 3 months prior because he's was becoming very coltish, and seemed to settle into his pre-training well after that.

He came into the yard and his work progressed quickly, he proved very easy to handle, although did have a tendency to hot up a bit, but nothing to dramatic. The reports back from the stable jockey were very positive with regard to his attitude and ability.

Then, in December we started doing pacework with him, and he's FAST! infact, we don't have anything else in the yard quick enough to work with him. Anyway, still, nothing untoward happened, we're very careful with our horses, especially the youngsters, given their tendencies to change once they begin sprinting, so we never pushed him or stressed him unnecessarily.

But then, overnight it seems, he's turned into a complete monster, refusing to go to work, rearing, ducking and spinning. At first we just put "french blinkers" on (the fluffy cheek pieces) and those seemed to work for a bit, but their effects soon became void. So now we're working him in pacifiers, which isn't ideal especially seeing as the horse hasn't even raced yet. And the pacifiers aren't exactly foolproof either. the only other thing, that we haven't tried yet, is giving him a little tranquiliser before work, just enough to take the edge off, again though - this isn't ideal.

Please, does anyone have ANY advice, or has/had a similar situation? we're getting desperate, he's almost ready to race now, but don't want to upset him unnecessarily.

Thanks, Fi.

[skeenan]

I only have equitation TB experience, but a strong reaction as you're describing, what comes to mind first is back pain (or other strong pain)...

I just read an article in which a saddle horse had explosive reactions under saddle and they thought he was perhaps untrainable. He'd be fine one minute, explosive the next. Come to find out, he had a back issue related to something that happened as a foal. Once they pinpointed the issue & he had some chiropractic work done, he was much better, if I'm remembering the article correctly...

I could be wrong, but if he were my horse that's what I'd look at first... good luck with him, hope you find a solution!

[fort_falcon]

Thanks for your advice Skeenan, i guess I should have mentioned in the first post that the horse is sound, he still stretches easily (which he wouldn't if his back was sore, well, not usually.), and doesn't appear to be in any pain. However, having said that I'll definately have the horse checked out anyway, you never know!

[summerhorse]

Yeah I would strongly suspect a pain issue somewhere particularly one that might come and go like a pinched nerve or muscle spasm or something. The horse never knows when it will come just that when he runs (or whatever) that it will be there. It may not be anything that even shows up as sore by look or feel (in his legs) but when he puts weight and speed on it then it hurts. It can sure sour them in a hurry.

[MidwestTrainer]

If he isn't sore, he is at least sour. Give him a break or take him along with another horse and just walk and take it very easy for a little while. They don't start acting up for no reason. Hope you work things out.

[horsenuts]

[quote="fort_falcon"]I apologise in advance if I'm posting this in the wrong place, and for the fact that it's pretty long winded......

We have a horse in our yard, Tap On Time (or just Taps). he's 3 years old, and came in off the farm about 5 months ago. He was gelded roughly 3 months prior because he's was becoming very coltish, and seemed to settle into his pre-training well after that.

He came into the yard and his work progressed quickly, he proved very easy to handle, although did have a tendency to hot up a bit, but nothing to dramatic. The reports back from the stable jockey were very positive with regard to his attitude and ability.

Then, in December we started doing pacework with him, and he's FAST! infact, we don't have anything else in the yard quick enough to work with him. Anyway, still, nothing untoward happened, we're very careful with our horses, especially the youngsters, given their tendencies to change once they begin sprinting, so we never pushed him or stressed him unnecessarily.

But then, overnight it seems, he's turned into a complete monster, refusing to go to work, rearing, ducking and spinning. At first we just put "french blinkers" on (the fluffy cheek pieces) and those seemed to work for a bit, but their effects soon became void. So now we're working him in pacifiers, which isn't ideal especially seeing as the horse hasn't even raced yet. And the pacifiers aren't exactly foolproof either. the only other thing, that we haven't tried yet, is giving him a little tranquiliser before work, just enough to take the edge off, again though - this isn't ideal.

Please, does anyone have ANY advice, or has/had a similar situation? we're getting desperate, he's almost ready to race now, but don't want to upset him unnecessarily.



Might try a top-notch cowboy on him for a few days that can give him an "attitiude adjustment" pain or no pain and see how he goes. A top cowboy can take that rearing and spin out of him in a hurry. Horses are smart and it may be this one has found a few things he'd rather do then work and needs a "kick in the a$$" to get back to work.

[madelyn]

I know what "assume" does, but I'm going to "assume" from the terminology in the post ("yard" is a bit of a giveaway) that "Taps" is in England or the UK where real cowboys are probably in extremely short supply.

The real question, is the problem physical or behavioral? Is he sour or bored, or is he sore? I think the suggestion to have him looked at by an equine chiropractor is a very good one. If the physical is ruled out, then you will be left with the behavioral puzzle.

[ratherrapid]

You said the behavior changed overnight. Was it in fact overnight, or has your rider indicated gradual misbehavior and then suddenly this dangerous stuff. On the surface it sounds like a rider thing, but then, think we need more info to really comment.

[madelyn]

Oh, was there any change in equipment? Bit? Saddle pad?

[Vindicated]

I apologise in advance if I'm posting this in the wrong place, and for the fact that it's pretty long winded......

We have a horse in our yard, Tap On Time (or just Taps). he's 3 years old, and came in off the farm about 5 months ago. He was gelded roughly 3 months prior because he's was becoming very coltish, and seemed to settle into his pre-training well after that.

He came into the yard and his work progressed quickly, he proved very easy to handle, although did have a tendency to hot up a bit, but nothing to dramatic. The reports back from the stable jockey were very positive with regard to his attitude and ability.

Then, in December we started doing pacework with him, and he's FAST! infact, we don't have anything else in the yard quick enough to work with him. Anyway, still, nothing untoward happened, we're very careful with our horses, especially the youngsters, given their tendencies to change once they begin sprinting, so we never pushed him or stressed him unnecessarily.

But then, overnight it seems, he's turned into a complete monster, refusing to go to work, rearing, ducking and spinning. At first we just put "french blinkers" on (the fluffy cheek pieces) and those seemed to work for a bit, but their effects soon became void. So now we're working him in pacifiers, which isn't ideal especially seeing as the horse hasn't even raced yet. And the pacifiers aren't exactly foolproof either. the only other thing, that we haven't tried yet, is giving him a little tranquiliser before work, just enough to take the edge off, again though - this isn't ideal.

Please, does anyone have ANY advice, or has/had a similar situation? we're getting desperate, he's almost ready to race now, but don't want to upset him unnecessarily.



Might try a top-notch cowboy on him for a few days that can give him an "attitiude adjustment" pain or no pain and see how he goes. A top cowboy can take that rearing and spin out of him in a hurry. Horses are smart and it may be this one has found a few things he'd rather do then work and needs a "kick in the a$$" to get back to work.

Betcha there is going to be some hollering
But I so agree-

[fort_falcon]

madelyn - no change in equipment, aside from the cheek pieces and pacifiers. I'm in South Africa, but worked in Ireland for 18months:)

It would be quite handy if we did have cowboys in this country though...they seem to be pretty useful riders from what I can gather.

No, it wasn't literally overnight, all horses go through these phases of "sticking up" and being a bit punchy (as we call it), but with him it seems to have become a bigger problem. Usually when a horse starts getting punchy we use a lead horse - we don't have "ponies" like in the states, so we use another - usually older horse - that's already in the string. just to give them a lead, or else if we've got a spare groom, just use him to lead the horse out the ring.

Taps' regualr work rider can usually get him to go, but yesterday things got really out of hand - even his workrider couldn't get him to go - which is what prompted me to post this here.

I'd say that the behaviour has become worse over the past 6 weeks or so.

[skeenan]

I don't disagree with a "cowboy" approach to solving a behavior issue—I've watched more than my share of it on RFD-TV...
I watched one show that dealt with a racehorse colt, but he was a handful before they started him under saddle.

However, it's the "overnight" part of it that makes me think... in my experience, bored horses act dull or non-responsive. Sour horses act up but it's usually easy to spot, I think—it carries over into everything else—ears back, crabby attitude, etc. If the horse is acting otherwise normal and this behavior is only under saddle, if it isn't pain (physical or equipment-related) maybe something hurtful or traumatic happened (in his own mind, anyway) and he's fearful of it happening again. Kinda like us seeing a tarp, and they see a monster that wants to eat them... maybe something really spooked him...

Or (as I'm reading your post that beat mine!) perhaps a mental break would help—we'd take school horses out for a trail ride and the break from the usual ring work did wonders for their attitudes. If you have decent terrain (hills, flat trails, etc.) he could still get a good workout but in a different environment...

Another brief thought... what about diet? I know too much protein can make some horses too hot and a handful. Could that be something to look at?

JMHO...

[fort_falcon]

It's time like these I wish we hadn't moved....The centre we train out of is right in the middle of an industrial area in the city...it really REALLY sucks, but there are still a few places he can go to be excercised without actually going onto the tracks, I'll speak to my partner about it and see what we can do. I agree that going to the same place day in day out can get extremely tedious for a horse.
A break would be out of the question as he's only 3 and hasn't even raced yet...not in my opinion...but well, the partner has majority share, so i have to do as she says.
In the stable, and even when he's walking round the ring he's as sweet as honey, doesn't put a foot wrong and in all other respects is REALLY easy, and uncomplicated to handle. it's only when he goes to work that he gets difficult.

[fort_falcon]

I suppose i should have mentioned, that once we actually get him onto the track he works really well, doesn't pull or anything, but he does "hang" away from the other horse if you work in pairs....?

diet wise, he's on a standard racehorse meal by a company called Vuma (they're affiliated - i guess - to Mitavite) but maybe a diet change will help him....ill look into it.

[ratherrapid]

Fort, here are my thoughts on this, at the risk of repeating some of the good advice that's already been given. I'm taking it from your post that after the horse get's on the track he's fine, it's getting him there that's the problem.

I'd want to determine whether the problem is onriness or fright. the spook thing for 3 yr olds can cause problems as someone mentioned.

I ride, though i'm hardly an expert in misbehaving horses. I do have a full horse that consistently refuses. with this one its deliberate misbehavior, and the whip or crop is called for, though sometimes that's dangerous on the way to the track. I've been known to have a session or two with this horse in the stall(because of the danger to the track), without losing my temper, but, enough to let him know business is required. as a rider you simply are unable to allow this to proceed if it's misbehavior. too dangerous. it's you or the horse.

imo both forms--misbehavior and spook require company and pony, if you have them. I frequently am without, so i deal with it. since mine is onery, and i know he'll run once i get him going, i also avoid worrying about the behavior. generally it lasts but for a few days, then he's fine.

i fail to buy the "sour" theory, especially the way you seem to train. horses appropriately trained never get sour. now, if you're asking the horse to do things that he's unconditioned for, different story.

hopefully we'll get an experienced track rider to comment. let us know what happens!