Obviously we all see good stakes winners come from South America and Europe who compete at our highest levels of racing, but GENERALLY speaking, is a grade one in Argentina similar to a grade one in North America in terms of the horses' abilities? How about for the other areas below? I know this will heavily depend on turf versus dirt, race distance, etc., and any opinions are welcome. I am mainly asking because when stallions shuttle, it is hard to guage some of their graded stakes winners compared to stallions who don't shuttle.
Puerto Rico
Panama
Central America (other)
Argentina
Brazil
Chile
South America (other)
New Zealand
Australia
Europe (general)
Graded Stakes Compatability Worldwide
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
i can tell you in europe a british,irish and french group 1'and german middle distance group 1's are roughly around the same.italian group 1's generally fall a bit short,the majority only takes a group 3 runner form the 4 countries ive mentioned to win.scandinavian countrys have few decent events,but many british group 3 or listed class types usually win those without too much fuss.
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kimberley mine
- Breeder's Cup Contender
- Posts: 1811
- Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:43 pm
Very good question!
The best measure in my opinion is the International Classification ("World Ratings") and how many horses each country has in that ranking.
Maybe South-American racing is not adequately represented in this system.
As the classification of races in the European Group-System is supervised and revised regularly according to the horses compering in these events, the level of races in each category should be similar.
Actually the Group- and Listed-races in GB / IRE / F show the highest level. German races just can't compete to this and Italian races are still a bit lower level.
We in Germany consider our G1-races as G2-races according to GB-/ F-level, admittedly the best German horses are running abroad nowadays.
Scandinavian horses compete with good success here in major sprint-races, which are up to G2-level but mostly Listed-races.
BenB told me a year ago, a Dutch-bred horse has never won a Listed-races so far in GER.
Dutch and Belgian horses compete in GER in handicap-class (4 categories) up to the second highest class, which is at least a class below Listed-races. It's nearly the same with horses from Switzerland and Austria.
During recent years German-bred and -trained horses often won Derbys in "small" countries like Switzerland, Austria, the Netherlands, Czech and Slovacian Republic. Most of these horses were "just" Listed-race-class or good handicappers in the German racing-system. But Czech-trained Darsalam won a G1-race here 2 years ago - earlier on he was 5th in the Doncaster St. Leger.
There were some Greek horses competing in German races (top-horses in their homeland), but they had no success here.
The best measure in my opinion is the International Classification ("World Ratings") and how many horses each country has in that ranking.
Maybe South-American racing is not adequately represented in this system.
As the classification of races in the European Group-System is supervised and revised regularly according to the horses compering in these events, the level of races in each category should be similar.
Actually the Group- and Listed-races in GB / IRE / F show the highest level. German races just can't compete to this and Italian races are still a bit lower level.
We in Germany consider our G1-races as G2-races according to GB-/ F-level, admittedly the best German horses are running abroad nowadays.
Scandinavian horses compete with good success here in major sprint-races, which are up to G2-level but mostly Listed-races.
BenB told me a year ago, a Dutch-bred horse has never won a Listed-races so far in GER.
Dutch and Belgian horses compete in GER in handicap-class (4 categories) up to the second highest class, which is at least a class below Listed-races. It's nearly the same with horses from Switzerland and Austria.
During recent years German-bred and -trained horses often won Derbys in "small" countries like Switzerland, Austria, the Netherlands, Czech and Slovacian Republic. Most of these horses were "just" Listed-race-class or good handicappers in the German racing-system. But Czech-trained Darsalam won a G1-race here 2 years ago - earlier on he was 5th in the Doncaster St. Leger.
There were some Greek horses competing in German races (top-horses in their homeland), but they had no success here.
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wallinga
- Restricted Stakes Winner
- Posts: 768
- Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:41 pm
- Location: Sydney, Australia
I think it's a depth thing.
South American and South African horses are up there on the world stage. But I think the top echelon is rather thin before it falls away a little.
The other thing to consider is the number of group one races.
Australia has over 60 group ones a year, I think the US is roughly the same and England is around 25 (obviously to that you can add the group one races in Ireland, France etc)
As a result a british group one winner is probably going to be of a high standard. But in the countries where there is a lot of group ones, you are bound to stumble on the odd ordinary group one (I'm thinking of our Western Australian G1's and some of the older middle distance races, Desert war! and in the states, some of the middle distance turf grade ones don't seem to hold up)
There are other factors, travel is a big one, but with the rise of asian racing. Aussies are getting more of an oppurtunity to prove themselves. (For a long time we were like the island on 'Lost', completely cut off...and polar bear's are racing)
South American and South African horses are up there on the world stage. But I think the top echelon is rather thin before it falls away a little.
The other thing to consider is the number of group one races.
Australia has over 60 group ones a year, I think the US is roughly the same and England is around 25 (obviously to that you can add the group one races in Ireland, France etc)
As a result a british group one winner is probably going to be of a high standard. But in the countries where there is a lot of group ones, you are bound to stumble on the odd ordinary group one (I'm thinking of our Western Australian G1's and some of the older middle distance races, Desert war! and in the states, some of the middle distance turf grade ones don't seem to hold up)
There are other factors, travel is a big one, but with the rise of asian racing. Aussies are getting more of an oppurtunity to prove themselves. (For a long time we were like the island on 'Lost', completely cut off...and polar bear's are racing)
