Triple Crown winners--Tougher than today's runners??

CA Michael · Postby **CA Michael** » Wed May 30, 2007 9:09 pm

SIR BARTON (1916)

May 10--KY Derby
May 14--Preakness (1 1/8 miles)
(May 24--Withers) (1 3/8 miles)
June 11--Belmont

GALLANT FOX (1927)

May 9--Preakness
May 17-KY Derby
June 7--Belmont

OMAHA (1932)

May 4--KY Derby
May 11--Preakness
(May 25--Withers S)
June 8--Belmont S

WAR ADMIRAL (1934)

May 8--KY Derby
May 15--Preakness
June 5-Belmont

WHIRLAWAY (1938)

May 3--KY Derby
May 10--Preakness
(May 20--Allowance)
June 7--Belmont

COUNT FLEET (1940)

May 1--KY Derby
May 8--Preakness
(May 22--Withers)
June 5--Belmont

CITATION (1945)

May 1--KY Derby
May 15--Preakness
(May 29--Jersey S)
June 12--Belmont

SECRETARIAT (1970)

May 5--KY Derby
May 19--Preakness
June 9--Belmont

SEATTLE SLEW (1974)

May 7--KY Derby
May 21-Preakness
June 11--Belmont

AFFIRMED (1975)

May 6--KY Derby
May 20--Preakness
June 10--Belmont

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Wed May 30, 2007 9:33 pm

I don't buy that one bit. first of all, if these were 15,000 claimers, we wuldn't be having this talk.

I think it all comes down to one thing...STALLION PROSPECTS.

When you are literarly sitting on a 15-20 million dollar ticket, you baby your horses, moreso than you should. Becuase they are babied, they don't aren't MADE to withstand the rigors of the triple crown.

If someone can please explain to me how a 3 WEEKS of rest and recoup is not enough time after a 2 mintue race, I'd love to hear it.. I think traveling and keeping his weight would play a bigger part than this.

lol, soon we are going to see a DRF and the trainers angle is going to say "oh, he's brigning his horse back in 3 weeks"

Bottom line, if Street Sense was a gelding...need I say more?

I can't say I blame him... I oubt i ever am in the posiiotn, but if I had a horse of that type of value, I owe it to myself to take care of me FIRST... the rest of my life, my kids, etc. however, anything after that, i'd run him until he went on strike.. then sell

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Wed May 30, 2007 10:44 pm

None of these greats were trained by Quarterhorse trainers, either. Notice how they didn't peak out after winning top races as 2 year olds? (except for Sir Barton....he didn't win anything at two. LOL!)

Seattle Slew won the Champagne in his third start (and third start in 26 days)...he then won the TC and beat Affirmed in the JCGC as a 4 year old. Speed kills, huh? No horse ever born could have gotten the lead over Seattle Slew!

What horse in recent memory had a harder two year old campaign than Affirmed (Coast to coast on top of facing Alydar all the time)? He won the TC and then beat Spectacular Bid in the JCGC...Spectacular Bid never lost another race. We're too hard on babies today, huh?

wallinga · Postby **wallinga** » Wed May 30, 2007 11:01 pm

In answer to the topic title. Yes they were. Two year olds are different these days, there is no way the champion two year olds of yester year could stay with the current squibs, having said the two year old champs of yester year could race on forever.

Having said that you Americans are slightly different to the rest of the world so I'm probably out of line

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Wed May 30, 2007 11:11 pm

I will say...horses now are a little faster and it might have something to do with it.

then again, they didn't have D W Lukas to train Citation either

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Wed May 30, 2007 11:12 pm

Nobody today talks about how many training miles are put into babies before they make their first start. When you ask a baby to run six furlongs at top speed and it's fit enough to run only a half mile, what's going to happen?

I remember when "bottom" was a term used to describe two year old training...putting in a necessary "bottom," or "foundation," was a top priority with babies. When was the last time you heard a high profile trainer say, "We put tons of miles into that baby before he ran?"

BDW: Horses today are not any faster than before. 1:08 is still a super fast sprint...same as always. A 1:33 mile will still make headlines...same as it always did.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Wed May 30, 2007 11:15 pm

you gotta get ready for the 2YO seaosn.. there are more 2YO preps than older division preps... there is money to be made man!

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Wed May 30, 2007 11:19 pm

Not on the turf, bucko. A nice turfer can make ZILLIONS as an older horse.

Kari · Postby **Kari** » Thu May 31, 2007 5:52 am

I can't believe some people think this is even an issue. The farther back you go, the tougher the horses had to be in order to race.

It wasn't just the racing part, either. It was the day-to-day life. No fancy, unpronounceable suppliments, no high-tech diagnostics to find a problem before it was visible, etc. Not to mention the stories I've read about racers travelling by rail car to get to their destination- yikes! (I realize flying horses isn't always a cakewalk, but at least most horses don't have to fly for 3-5 days at a time.)

geowarrior · Postby **geowarrior** » Thu May 31, 2007 6:16 am

Not to completely hijack the thread, since this isn't a T.C. horse, but did anyone notice that Kip Deville is entered for a race this Saturday? Isn't that kind of soon after he got pasted by the Tin Man (incidentally there's an older turf horse who's making bazillions)? Or was it just an alternate entry and they plan to scratch him?

UmmYeah · Postby **UmmYeah** » Thu May 31, 2007 6:51 am

geowarrior wrote:Not to completely hijack the thread, since this isn't a T.C. horse, but did anyone notice that Kip Deville is entered for a race this Saturday? Isn't that kind of soon after he got pasted by the Tin Man (incidentally there's an older turf horse who's making bazillions)? Or was it just an alternate entry and they plan to scratch him?

Well, the owners paid $5,000 to supplement him for the race. You don't usually pay $5K just to scratch.

geowarrior · Postby **geowarrior** » Thu May 31, 2007 7:03 am

Yes, thanks Um Yeah, I read your useful information after I made the earlier post on this thread. 5k to scratch does seem a bit excessive.

Tairaterces · Postby **Tairaterces** » Thu May 31, 2007 11:08 am

Kip came back like he hadn't even raced a lick, which he hadn't, some say because of a troubled trip, so why not race him. Shoemaker was just a glorified work.

:wink:

PS: Michael to answer your question . . . . Hell YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ratherrapid · Postby **ratherrapid** » Thu May 31, 2007 11:24 am

do we need more information before answering such a question?

Doug O'Neil has just managed to injure all three of his TC horses. Were these horses injured because they are less "tough" (whatever that refers to) than horses in prior years, or were they injured because Doug O'Neil is an idiot? Can you do anything but speculate and guess unless you know exactly what Doug O'Neil is doing with his horses?

Sysonby · Postby **Sysonby** » Thu May 31, 2007 12:39 pm

ratherrapid wrote:do we need more information before answering such a question?

Doug O'Neil has just managed to injure all three of his TC horses. Were these horses injured because they are less "tough" (whatever that refers to) than horses in prior years, or were they injured because Doug O'Neil is an idiot? Can you do anything but speculate and guess unless you know exactly what Doug O'Neil is doing with his horses?

Or is it the track they are training on?