Molina kicks a horse

[Toccet02]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2007/June/19/Philadelphia-Park-ejects-Molina-for-kicking-horse.aspx

any comments here?

[Denise]

There's a 14 page thread over at ThoroughbredChampions that pretty much runs the gamut of opinions available on the subject..
As an owner/breeder, I'm horrified that he did this. That it was a 2yo. makes it more reprehensible. Yes, bad actors need firm hands, but timing is everything: what Molina did and when he did it was wrong and misplaced. The horse had no idea why he was being punished well after the incident in the gate. Now he'll just be sour and associate "behind the gate, untacked" with a miserable experience. The horse was gelded the next day. Good luck healing his mind in the coming days.

[horsenuts]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2007/June/19/Philadelphia-Park-ejects-Molina-for-kicking-horse.aspx

any comments here?

Couldn't do any damage other then Molina possibly breaking his foot as jockey boots are paper thin weighing about a 1/4 pound. After having a horse work you over in the gate fear and frustration can be very difficult emotions to contain. A completely overblown story all things considered.. though Molina would have been better suited to keep his emotions in check... but again not easy to do if a horse had bad intentions moments earlier in the gate. Just like people not all horses are nice to work with, in fact some go out of their way to inflict harm.

[bdw0617]

but as an owner, I'm paying you to 1) win 2) respect my animal

regardless of how rude I am or how mean I can be, when I go to a resturant I expect to get treated with respect.. now i"m not mean or anything but you get where I'm going


there is no excuse for that, espically knowing that the black media would be all over it. People already portray people who are in horse racing as degenerates who can't control their emotions

to put it in perspective, what if ater that, the owner took molina around back and stomped the crap out of him because he was "emotionally wound up" for kicking his horse? It's just as justifed if that is the case, espically if we are talking MSW races.. he might have paid something for the horse

[horsenuts]

but as an owner, I'm paying you to 1) win 2) respect my animal

regardless of how rude I am or how mean I can be, when I go to a resturant I expect to get treated with respect.. now i"m not mean or anything but you get where I'm going


there is no excuse for that, espically knowing that the black media would be all over it. People already portray people who are in horse racing as degenerates who can't control their emotions

to put it in perspective, what if ater that, the owner took molina around back and stomped the crap out of him because he was "emotionally wound up" for kicking his horse? It's just as justifed if that is the case, espically if we are talking MSW races.. he might have paid something for the horse

I don't know what to tell you. I live in a very nice subdivision and one of my neighbors was ravaged by another neighbors dog who attacked him unprovoked. Blood everywhere... ambulance on the scene multiple stiches required etc. Neighbor is a decent sized fellow of good build so it was not some kid. So what to do with the neighbor so attacked as he kicked the living crap out of the dog whenever he could get a shot in?


Molina sees his life flash before him because a half crazed horse goes off in the gate and should have no response? Human emotions aren't that easy to control under such circumstances.... and animals are more then capable of inflicting serious damage with some doing so wantingly and knowingly as anyone who has worked with animals knows. Not everyone's Steve Irwin and even he found out how dangerous animals can be in the end... even when you think they are your friend any animal is capable of severly hurting people.... even killing them. I 've known several people killed by a horse.

[majxmom]

Once I was paddocking a horse that had all the right stuff but was a notorious morning glory. He was ahead by three at the 3/8ths pole and looked like a sure winner, but we knew better, and sure enough, he pulled himself up. The favorite, an old class horse now running for $3200, came to him at the eighth pole, and we lost by a nose. We were frankly thrilled with a second. David Patton was riding him, and when he came back for the unsaddling, he thwacked Prince right in the side of the head with his whip and said, "Sonofabitch shoulda won by ten!" in front of the whole grandstand. It couldn't have been that bad because I was holding onto the horse and did not hear the whack, nor did Prince duck out from it, but a lot of people told me Patton really drew back for the swing. Good thing for Patton I didn't know, or we might have had a re-enactment of the famous Julie Krone brawl. Next thing I knew, the stewards were all over it because it happened in front of the crowd. There was a lot of huffing and puffing, but in the end he didn't even get fined. I suppose that meant there were no phone calls of outrage.

Also at Pln, I saw Bobby Jennings kick a first-time starter in the belly that was acting up in the saddling paddock. I'm always on the side of the horse in these things, but he hit him with the side of his foot, not the point of the toe, and the horse settled right down and was quiet for the rest of the saddling. The crowd really grumbled, but that was the end of it.

[bdw0617]

but as an owner, I'm paying you to 1) win 2) respect my animal

regardless of how rude I am or how mean I can be, when I go to a resturant I expect to get treated with respect.. now i"m not mean or anything but you get where I'm going


there is no excuse for that, espically knowing that the black media would be all over it. People already portray people who are in horse racing as degenerates who can't control their emotions

to put it in perspective, what if ater that, the owner took molina around back and stomped the crap out of him because he was "emotionally wound up" for kicking his horse? It's just as justifed if that is the case, espically if we are talking MSW races.. he might have paid something for the horse

I don't know what to tell you. I live in a very nice subdivision and one of my neighbors was ravaged by another neighbors dog who attacked him unprovoked. Blood everywhere... ambulance on the scene multiple stiches required etc. Neighbor is a decent sized fellow of good build so it was not some kid. So what to do with the neighbor so attacked as he kicked the living crap out of the dog whenever he could get a shot in?


Molina sees his life flash before him because a half crazed horse goes off in the gate and should have no response? Human emotions aren't that easy to control under such circumstances.... and animals are more then capable of inflicting serious damage with some doing so wantingly and knowingly as anyone who has worked with animals knows. Not everyone's Steve Irwin and even he found out how dangerous animals can be in the end... even when you think they are your friend any animal is capable of severly hurting people.... even killing them. I 've known several people killed by a horse.

well your neighboor has the police.. there is no horse police...

I am not saying it was RIGHT to take the jockey behind the woodshed.. I'm saying it would be just as justified as kicking a horse that can't talk, probably was not given enough ample time in the gates to be ready in the first place

Julie Krone braw

what is this?



I'm not saying a thump to make him pay attention is a bad thing... me giving a quick slap on a 1200 ound animal is like my Maltese nawing on my toe. But to KICK a horse in the stomach, is not a thmup.

[horsenuts]

but as an owner, I'm paying you to 1) win 2) respect my animal

regardless of how rude I am or how mean I can be, when I go to a resturant I expect to get treated with respect.. now i"m not mean or anything but you get where I'm going


there is no excuse for that, espically knowing that the black media would be all over it. People already portray people who are in horse racing as degenerates who can't control their emotions

to put it in perspective, what if ater that, the owner took molina around back and stomped the crap out of him because he was "emotionally wound up" for kicking his horse? It's just as justifed if that is the case, espically if we are talking MSW races.. he might have paid something for the horse

I don't know what to tell you. I live in a very nice subdivision and one of my neighbors was ravaged by another neighbors dog who attacked him unprovoked. Blood everywhere... ambulance on the scene multiple stiches required etc. Neighbor is a decent sized fellow of good build so it was not some kid. So what to do with the neighbor so attacked as he kicked the living crap out of the dog whenever he could get a shot in?


Molina sees his life flash before him because a half crazed horse goes off in the gate and should have no response? Human emotions aren't that easy to control under such circumstances.... and animals are more then capable of inflicting serious damage with some doing so wantingly and knowingly as anyone who has worked with animals knows. Not everyone's Steve Irwin and even he found out how dangerous animals can be in the end... even when you think they are your friend any animal is capable of severly hurting people.... even killing them. I 've known several people killed by a horse.

well your neighboor has the police.. there is no horse police...

I am not saying it was RIGHT to take the jockey behind the woodshed.. I'm saying it would be just as justified as kicking a horse that can't talk, probably was not given enough ample time in the gates to be ready in the first place

Julie Krone braw

what is this?



I'm not saying a thump to make him pay attention is a bad thing... me giving a quick slap on a 1200 ound animal is like my Maltese nawing on my toe. But to KICK a horse in the stomach, is not a thmup.

A 110 lb jockey kicking a horse in the stomach is akin to a rotten child getting a single hand spank at a restaurant.


The horse threw a tizzy in the starting gate... may I suggest you climb aboard such an animal loaded inside a starting gate and then have said horse come unhinged with you aboard and see how "calm" you are after seeing your life flash before your eyes. Jockeyes have been killed under such circumstances and or maimed and crippled. Molina was obviously emotionally upset but under the circumstances I'm more then willing to forgive him and having worked with horses most of my life understand where he is coming from. A horse coming unglued with you atop their back inside a confined area such as the starting gate is never fun and always dangerous. And if the horse is wantingly looking to hurt said rider the "kick" is understandable. But then few if any of those critizing Molina have ever had the courage to do what he does for a living either.

I'll say it again... horses are dangerous animals. I've seen people crippled and maimed being in a horses stall when the horse "turned" on them trompling them to the ground stomping them within an inch of their life. Jockey Vicky Warhol had this very thing happen last summer in Iowa as she was perpping a yearling for a sale. The horse "turned" on her in its stall and dang near killed her. I'm sure you can google the article that was in the Racing Form / Blood Horse and read it for yourself. I've known people who were severvely injured in horse trailers as well when a horse "came apart" on them unexpectedly. Anyone who has worked on the backside knows how mean some horses can be and are. Some are so mean they'd prefer killing you as seeing you everyday. Horses have savaged many stable hands down through the years. True, most horse are good to work with.... but not all.. and Molina may have simply been a aboard a rotten actor and lost his cool as a result.

[henthorn]

It's true he might have used better judgment than to lash out at the horse, particularly in the view of a video camera. But split second responses are not that easy to control for many of us.

I hate it when I kick my 100 pound dog in the butt to keep her from pulling me over and dragging me across the pavement. But I've been hurt too many times by her sudden lunges, and I do it in self-defense and to remind her that I'm the alpha in this pack.

A 100 pound jockey kicking a horse is a minor problem. It would be different if he were beating him, torturing him, or shooting him. He doesn't want the horse to think his own misbehavior was justifiable. The jockey might have been actually hurt if the animal acts up again.

[bdw0617]

the "you don't know what it's like" arugement doesn't hold any water. I was raised on a farm, I'm very familar with horses and know just how tempermentall they can be. I've came within inches of becing bucked by one at a very young age.

However...when one takes out his jockeis license, these are some of the things you realize that you will encounter. horse reacing pound for pound is the most dangerous sport in the country, maybe the world.

that's like me becomng a bull rider, then pulling out a gun and shooting the bull when it turns on me for no apparent reason and then saying "you don't know what it 'slike, these things are dangerous"

people aren't stupid. however, no one ever put a gun to your head and told you to become a bull rider

being a jockey is not a right. Making a good living, playing/exercising/racing horses. that's some people's dream.

And yes accidents do happen, horses do turn on people. I question the fact.. if the horse was that "bad of a horse" why did he take the mount in the first place? I'm sure he has worked him in the morning before, breezed him and knew the horse. if the horse was that big of an "issue", don't take the mount. once you accept the mount, you have no excuse, you made your own bed.

if the horse was a "mini killer" you don't take the mount. obliviously he couldn't have been that bad. We aren't talking about Seabiscuit and Red Pollard here

I think what's more likely, is that he was just frustrated with what he thought was a cheap horse because he got scratched and kicked it.

Fact is, no one knows what that horse has and hasn't been though. i sure as hell don't. i don't know if he has been gate trained, I don't know how many times he has been breezed.

Plus a horses, an animals stomach, is one of the most sensitive places on his body.. under the rib cage there is no protection. Regardless of how big he is, and at 2 he isn't fully grown, that hurts.

[horsenuts]

the "you don't know what it's like" arugement doesn't hold any water. I was raised on a farm, I'm very familar with horses and know just how tempermentall they can be. I've came within inches of becing bucked by one at a very young age.

However...when one takes out his jockeis license, these are some of the things you realize that you will encounter. horse reacing pound for pound is the most dangerous sport in the country, maybe the world.

that's like me becomng a bull rider, then pulling out a gun and shooting the bull when it turns on me for no apparent reason and then saying "you don't know what it 'slike, these things are dangerous"

people aren't stupid. however, no one ever put a gun to your head and told you to become a bull rider

being a jockey is not a right. Making a good living, playing/exercising/racing horses. that's some people's dream.

And yes accidents do happen, horses do turn on people. I question the fact.. if the horse was that "bad of a horse" why did he take the mount in the first place? I'm sure he has worked him in the morning before, breezed him and knew the horse. if the horse was that big of an "issue", don't take the mount. once you accept the mount, you have no excuse, you made your own bed.

if the horse was a "mini killer" you don't take the mount. obliviously he couldn't have been that bad. We aren't talking about Seabiscuit and Red Pollard here

I think what's more likely, is that he was just frustrated with what he thought was a cheap horse because he got scratched and kicked it.

Fact is, no one knows what that horse has and hasn't been though. i sure as hell don't. i don't know if he has been gate trained, I don't know how many times he has been breezed.

Plus a horses, an animals stomach, is one of the most sensitive places on his body.. under the rib cage there is no protection. Regardless of how big he is, and at 2 he isn't fully grown, that hurts.

Complete lack of understanding of what all is involved with racehorses is the typical reaction from those first to castigate Molina. Just like the person who turns in the Mom for swatting her rotten acting kid at the grocery store. We've all seen this a 1000 times and Molina found himself cast in the role of the "abusive Mother" in a situation involving a horse that seconds earlier had been working him over inside a confined iron container known as a starting gate. How bad was the horse? Obviously the assistant starter was unable to do anything to help the situation.


Molina was emotionally upset and reacted accordingly(as all humans do at one time or another). I now realize none of you have ever done anything like this to your children, pet or dog(though Henthorn admits to such and I find him FAR more credible then those still condeming Molina for his momentary loss of control) Still, why do I suspect everyone one of these other folks castigating Molina are nothing more then sanctimonious hypocrits who also have "lost it" at one time or the other in their life either with their children or pets.


I now know Molina's only "human" and understand his frustration... but I don't know what the ones condemning him are. They sure aren't human or they would have an understanding of what all is involved in the situation Molina found himself in.

[ruaff]

IMHO- PROFESSIONALS should act accordingly

[Ryeno]

Being "bucked at" by a horse is nothing close to being pinned in an iron starting gate.I have worked on the starting gate and I will tell you that some of the scariest momments I have ever been involved with in the horse industry occured their.

I have no problem with what Molina did. I dont condone animal abuse but what Molina did is not abuse. Ive read the other forum and cannot believe what ive read. People get a life. There is much more heinous and dangerous crap that goes on in your own neighborhood that you probably do little about.

As far as Molina being mad because the horse was scratched ( refering to he wasnt getting paid) he got compensation the minute the horse walked out of the paddock.


Also horses are REQUIRED to recieve a gate card prior to starting. At my home track you have to go to the gate at least 7 times before you are eligible to start.

Ryeno

[bdw0617]

so from now on we are just going to start punching and slapping horses when they don't do what we want them to do?


Again... no one put a bullet to your head and made you take your job. you areen't in jail.. that's an occupational hazard that you were well aware of. He's a freakin 1200 horse.


I'll tell you... punch my horse in the stomach and see what happens, I wouldn't care if he was a 5k claimer or a 5 million dollar yearling.

and again, he didn' haven't to take the mount.

and even worse, if got his gate card and he was nervous by something he saw... you punch him? What kinda sportsmanship is that?

[RavenSuesMom1]

So what to do with the neighbor so attacked as he kicked the living crap out of the dog whenever he could get a shot in?

Kicking the dog when he could get a shot in was trying to stop the attack - going up and kicking the horse after getting out of the gate and the horse being unsaddled is an entirely different matter.

And Molina should act professionally ... I work as a Registered Vet Tech - I got bit and scratched often, but I would lose my job if I even thought about kicking or punching a dog that bit me - even a big rottie or pitbull or mastiff.