Are drugs in the game really THIS bad?

[bdw0617]

http://www.clockerbob.com/chapter3.html

that's pretty eye opening.

Here is my take: I've played sports all my life. IMHO, horse racing, at least in america, is no different than any other sport execpt for the fact that the athletes can't talk.

Are there drugs in the game? sure.

Is there undermindedness at particular tracks and wrongdoings? Whenever there is a profit to be made, yes

But is every track at every race a crooked race that the general public has no chance whatsoever to profit from like this guy would lead you to believe? God no

First of all, I find it hard to believe when you get to the high levels of the sport, the G2 and G1 levels,t hat owners are that willing to start jucing their potential breeding shed stars up. I'm not going to juice a horse to win a 500k G1 (when he was good enough anyway) and potentially loose him and loose 10-15 MILLION. that's not good economic sense.

Over the years however, there are sometimes when even I can tell something is amiss. First of all, I don't even bother with tracks like Philly, Charles Town and Mountaineer. There is no point

In general I have a list of rules I follow... the most important being only bet on what you can see. I don't even touch maiden races at any track. It's been my long lasting theory that maiden races are how the "people in the know" grease their hands... unpublished workouts, unplublised gate works, etc... you see it everyday... a maiden with 1 51 and change 4F work in a 50k claiming coming home in hand first time out.

however once you have raced... for the most part, the cat's out of the bag. there isn't the veil you can hide under any longer.


Are horses juiced? I'm sure they are.. however if a horse is consistently juiced, from a handicapping standpoint.. what does it matter? he's consistently running at a particular level. of course I don't want the horse jucied, don't get me wrong but still.

[Tucumcari]

Depends, I suppose, on what your idea of "juicing" is.
And ya trainers sometimes try to hide a horse to cash on. Some people are more aggressive with their medication program than others. Some people know why they give what, and others let their vet treat the horse. Some tube, some give clenbuterol at 5 min call. Are hormones "juice" If so, the we are likely all guilty. Bute BAnamine, Ketophen, Dex.... are they juice or are they theraputic?
What is the definition of "JUICE?"

[tinners way]

Drugs have incredibly weakened the product by allowing problems that never would have been hidden, to be carried to the breeding shed. My opinion, it is more rampant at the top of the game and at the bottom than it is in the middle. Just look at the list of "top" trainers that have been forced to vacation in the past two years.

There are at least five major things wrong with this industry, but the lack of a national or international drug policy is the most criminal.

Gamesmanship with workout times has been going on for 200 years- not right, but not completely evil. Drugs- weakens the animal and the integrity of all involved in the "game". I don't know if it will ever be possible or feasible to run drug free, but it sure would force a number of trainers to have to start working again.

[bdw0617]

considering that the US is one of the only countires that allows drugs in racing, I don't see why not


hwoever it's hard to take candy from a baby once he has been eating it for years

[louis finochio]

Why dont we have pre-race testing like some other parts of the world has?

[bdw0617]

that's a good question.. I thought there WAS pre race testing? there isn't?

[zinn21]

I can only speak about California racing and more specifically Nor Cal racing but instead of turning out a horse, an owner will tell a trainer, or visa versa, to inject him and drop him. If the trainer refuses the horse is moved to a trainer that will.

Additionally the level of horsemanship is as limited as it has ever been. Example, a new trainer the other day asked where he clicks his watch when his horse works and we're not talking a gate drill.. In many of cases the vet trains their horse.

Combine this with inconsistent/hard racetracks and you have a recipe for disaster.

Until the economics become more favorable so owners and trainers do not feel forced to squeeze the lemon dry or we set up some sort of rule on injecting joints, racing will continue it's downward spiral.

[Tucumcari]

Why dont we have pre-race testing like some other parts of the world has?

Louis we have pre race testing, post race testing and random non competetive testing.... what else would you suggest?

[Monmouth Matt]

Pretty soon Biancone's going to run out of places to race. I wonder what the barn search will turn up this time. There is an outstanding interview with a well known vet in this week's Bloodhorse focusing on the damaging aspects of the drugs. It nothing that hasn't been discussed on here repeatedly. Unfortunately, they will not go away until racing takes the game away from the states and goes national......with a 3 strikes and your out policy.

[Tucumcari]

The problem with people who rely on meds are that they often don't know why they give what, and what the long and short term problems might be. I've heard stories from vet friends aboutwhat goes on in that barn and it makes me shake my head. No rhyme or reason...
Then ther is also the issue with big barns and lack of organization. Trainers rely so heavily on their assistants and foremen to medicate daily and often to deal with the vets. I can see how accidents happen easily! But Those people need to be educated and consiencious(sp). It's costly.

[louis finochio]

The vets have told me without the drugs that they give to those Tb there would be no racing. What was better oats, hay, water, leg paint and time or drugs and a bandaid to patchem up and send them back to the races to have horse or rider injured or killed?

[Tucumcari]

That's crap, Louis.

[bdw0617]

Pretty soon Biancone's going to run out of places to race. I wonder what the barn search will turn up this time. There is an outstanding interview with a well known vet in this week's Bloodhorse focusing on the damaging aspects of the drugs. It nothing that hasn't been discussed on here repeatedly. Unfortunately, they will not go away until racing takes the game away from the states and goes national......with a 3 strikes and your out policy.

I thought Biancone didn't use drugs? he reportly doesn't like to use lasix

[MizzenMast]

Of course not -- because if he used Lasix, the horse would urinate the other goods out too quickly.

[Monmouth Matt]

Pretty soon Biancone's going to run out of places to race. I wonder what the barn search will turn up this time. There is an outstanding interview with a well known vet in this week's Bloodhorse focusing on the damaging aspects of the drugs. It nothing that hasn't been discussed on here repeatedly. Unfortunately, they will not go away until racing takes the game away from the states and goes national......with a 3 strikes and your out policy.

I thought Biancone didn't use drugs? he reportly doesn't like to use lasix

Hong Kong banned him after coming up dirty in '97 & '99. My comment was based on the report of his barn being searched earlier this week after a banned drug showed up in one of his runners this year.