Training of today???/styles of training???

[Slew83]

How is a horse trained at the track today compared to 30 or more years ago?

What’s the different between American, Japanese, & European styles of training of today?

[ratherrapid]

slew, it would be helpful to narrow the q a bit.

Good topic, though!

[Slew83]

sorry about that...


How is a horse trained at the track today compared to 30 or more years ago?

Horses seemed to last longer in years past. Why is it so differnt today?

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What’s the different between American, Japanese, & European styles of training of today?

Casino Drive training vs Big Brown training vs Red Rocks training styles?


Thanks

[ratherrapid]

Slew from that photo of Red Rocks vs. Curlin, can we say steroids? I hope I'm accusing them correctly instead of incorrect, but, that was highly suspicious musculature on that horse to me. Unfortunatley, after Dutrow revalations everything I see now days is tainted. Steroids explains a lots of voids in my own puzzlement based on training--Lawyer Ron's Woodward, e.g.

unknown to me that we have any statistics that horses were injured less 30 years ago, which would be the late 1970s, although I'm personally without any doubt that generally there were fewer injuries due to more appropriate, race specific training. However, after a period of very soft training throught the 1990s, I'm thinking possibly the training pendulum (in terms of "hard" vs. "soft") training may be swinging back the other way, partially in response to competition, and also as more and more understand the soft Lukas style trainers are injuring every single horse they touch.

As to the difference between the Japs and Dutrow--fascinating. Somebody should document in detail. Start out with the injury avoiding Jap warm ups.

[Sylvie Hebert]

Soft Lukas style?...i remember him galloping every single horse everyday 2 miles in acceleration?...most of what i see today is 3-4 gallops a week and barely a mile...

[ratherrapid]

D.W. "I never work horses" Lukas describes his training in detail in Ross Staaden's book "Winning Trainers" where we also get K. McLaughlin's brilliance of why breeze 8f when 4f will do. Lukas never mentioned accelerations, much less 2 mile accelerations, which would be interesting, if you'd elaborate.

[Sylvie Hebert]

i galloped for him many many years ago...we took each horse out 2 miles beginning slow and getting into a stronger gallop as we went finishing may be the last half in something close to a 2 minutes mile...i have met other trainers doing the same over the years...but a handfull

[ratherrapid]

you were an exercise person for DW Lukas!!!

Are you willing to post more on this? Or, did they swear you to secrecy? i'd like to know e.g. how many days lukas would gallop and breeze. e.g. you say he galloped 2 miles, whereas in Staaden's book Lukas relates that he generally gallops 1.25 to 1.5 miles and breezes every 9 or 10 days but very slowly and repeats the sequence over and over.

I'd extrapolated from the book Lukas was doing something like

g,g,g,g, r,g,g,g, b, r,r,r, and repeat. (r stands for "rest", b for "breeze")

but, it would be helpful to know precisely.

speed of gallops, how many days in a row the accelerations, etc.

[pokeyman]

In the past, no steroids. Horses were turned out and put through the sales as natural animals not buff monsters.

Horses were not raced year round.

Stallions were expected to show their class by racing older horses before retiring to stud.

Horses were turned out for 3 months every year and had their shoes pulled.

Breeders bred to race as their number one priority.

[Roger]

If we just consider the top trainers and top horses, I feel that they are trained a lot less. Galloping everyday is not as hard on a horse as working 3/8's or a half every three or four days like Preston Burke did his good ones. We don't have the same horse today not because of radical changes in training as much as the radical way we raise these babies. We raise hot house horses meant to for sale (we've beat that to death, but its true). We really don't know how many break-downs there were in past, but we do know that they started in a lot more races. Steroids have been around a long time, maybe Man O War didn't, but I suspect Secretariat did.
Same timers like me have to consider racing as a part of our conditioning more than the big guys who have gallop hands, stable riders and such, but they to use races to get horses ready for bigger races. We had a discussion on running horses back in a day or so, that could be a part of a larger plan of condidtioning.

[LB]

We don't have the same horse today not because of radical changes in training as much as the radical way we raise these babies. We raise hot house horses meant to for sale (we've beat that to death, but its true).

You know, I really need someone to explain this statement to me. Roger, maybe you can help? I'm constantly reading on BBs--here and elsewhere--about TB babies being hot housed for the sales...where does this happen? Would somebody name some names for me? Because from my experience this isn't the truth, it's a self-perpetuating internet myth.

Anyone here who confines and overfeeds their sales yearlings, please feel free to step in and explain why you do that and how it's working for you.

I live in Kentucky, surrounded by the big farms. Three Chimneys, Winstar and Lane's End are all on my road. I see their yearlings outside all year round--maybe only turned out at night in the heat of the summer, but they're still out. I buy yearlings, I sell yearlings, and I have yet to buy or sell one that had been "hot housed" in the manner that I keep hearing about as a casually stated fact.

So where are all these mismanaged yearlings? I really want to know. If they're not a figment of the collective internet imagination, would someone with more experience than I have please explain to me what I'm missing?

[Roger]

I don't know first hand from the Kentucky stand point, but I do look at the pictures in the trade journals and I see the yearlings here in Texas and I see most yearlings that look like heavy two year olds, if you use the condition scoring system, most of the babies are a high six or seven. What would you score the average Sept yearling?

[zinn21]

LB, you introduced the line of the month, "a self perpetuating internet myth"

That line's a classic..

[LB]

I don't know first hand from the Kentucky stand point, but I do look at the pictures in the trade journals and I see the yearlings here in Texas and I see most yearlings that look like heavy two year olds, if you use the condition scoring system, most of the babies are a high six or seven. What would you score the average Sept yearling?

Frankly, I'm not that interested in arbitrary scoring methods. I do think that sales yearlings at the biggest sales are presented in peak condition, and why not? The sales are a beauty contest and buyers like the appearance of shiny coats and rippling muscles. Are some of them pushed too hard to achieve that effect? I'm sure it happens. But most (in KY) are prepped with common sense and the realization that horses need to be horses.

[louis finochio]

It's the underpinning that dictates when to go when to stop or continue on. When you look at the PP's of the past tb, you will see they were great weight carriers and raced very often. When you examine their pedigrees versus today's thoroughbreds you will see why the unsoundess of today is playing a major part in the low number of average starts lifetime. Seek and you shall find.