Vinyard Haven sold to Goldolphin

[oliverstoned]

This guys getting flipped more than a Miami condo (circa 2003). Racing loses what could have been a great story. Owned, bred and trained by Lynne Scace , Vinyard Haven has a great backyard breeder pedigree ala Timely Writer ( a fan favorite in 81-82) . Bobby Frankel, Joe Torre swoop in after his maiden win, then proceed to take the Hopeful and Champagne. Now in swoops Sheikh Mohammed and voila off to Dubai. The Sheikh is determined to buy a Derby. He is also determined to prep them in Dubai, which is stupid but will work sooner or later. Racing fans would have loved rooting for him with Lynn Scace owning him but when Coolmore, Darly, Godolphin, or IEAH types get involved it takes away some enthusiasm.

[el camino]

How much do you think Frankel got. He is someone who would have to be really blown away to sell. 20 million?

[oliverstoned]

Maybe 20, I was thinking 12-16 million based on the rumour he offered somewhere around that for Nobizlikeshobiz.

[zinn21]

Would be interesting to know what Goldolphin paid for an exceptional young entire horse with minimum performers in recent family history.

His pedigree/performance equation is somewhat hard to explain.

[bdw0617]

12 million? i was thinking 1/10th of that.

maybe 3 million or so.. if that

truth be told, frankel realizes what every other handicapper out there realizes.. this colt while good is about at his peak, and wont' be a serious contender next year come derby time. sell while the iron is hot.


if he honestly thought he was empire maker/ghostzapper jr...no way in the world frankel sells him. Frankel might be one of the best owner/trainers out there.. he owns alot of the stakes horses he runs.

[oliverstoned]

bdw the Sheikh wants the Derby baaaad. Vinyard Haven has won two grade ones on dirt and is a finalist for an Eclipse. I think your flat wrong on this horse's potential but even if he wins the Derby next year 12-20 mil is too much to pay because of his pedigree, but with the Sheikh its not about the money.

[ageecee]

Someone offer me 10 mill for that horse im doing cartwheels off the rood of my house.

Its a BUSINESS people. make money thats what its all about.

[bdw0617]

bdw the Sheikh wants the Derby baaaad. Vinyard Haven has won two grade ones on dirt and is a finalist for an Eclipse. I think your flat wrong on this horse's potential but even if he wins the Derby next year 12-20 mil is too much to pay because of his pedigree, but with the Sheikh its not about the money.

but he won't. he's a miler at best. maybe 9 furlongs.. but not a classic horse.


i was going to make anothe rpost, but i've been thinking... first and foremost, it never fails... all of the 2YO's now in 6 months will be for the most part irrevlant.. 2006 was an anomoly where the best 2YO's were pretty much the best 3YO's.. but usually that's not how it plays out.

last year this time it was war pass, pyro, and... well that was pretty much it. by April it was Big Brown, Eight Belles and Colonel John. War Pass was found to be ineffective at anything really over a mile and a 16th and Pyro was just ineffective.

It's not that i'm picking on vineyard heaven.. but i would go to reason yo might get 4-5 2YO's that are at top class as 2YO"s that are still best in show as 3YO's.. THAT;s why he isn't worth 10 million dollars.

Curlin to this day has the most impressive maiden race i have ever seen, and he didn't break 4 million. Big Brown might have broke 4 million.. but these 2 horses, looking aet them, were pretty much can't miss as can't miss gets, and they didn't get half of 8 figures.

I'd be another thing if he had a pedigree like Storm Cat / Azeri or something, but he doesn't.

it's business, and while shiek mo does spend money like it grows on trees, he does so with horses he thinks can actually do something later.


Also, i think it's unfair to blame say that the horses that go over to dubai don't pan out derby time... 95% of all horses that are good at 2YO don't pan out later.

The way they buy horses it will never work, to "buy a derby". you don't by the best Grade 1 sprinting 2YO's and try to win a classic.


and then to add something else.. as much as they spend, they always seem to miss out on the big thing.

curlin sold for what.. 3.25 mil? their "we don't share horses" policy, a stupid one, costed them 2 of the best hroses of this decade in curlin and big brown.

Wasn't War Embelm bought like a month before the derby? That's how you buy a derby horse.

[zinn21]

In a Bloodhorse article Bobby states:

“I haven’t been feeling good about selling him,” Frankel said. “I have seller’s remorse, but it’s a lot of money to turn down. I really believe this horse is a serious Triple Crown threat. That’s how good I think he is. I really didn’t want to sell, and in my heart I feel terrible about it. He’s perfectly sound, he does everything right, and he loves to train.

see link to full article

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/47866.htm

[oliverstoned]

The following is from Steve Haskins article from todays Bloodhorse.com:

When anyone, even Sheikh Mohammed, pays a reported $12 million for a 2-year-old (grade I Hopeful and Champagne winner Vineyard Haven), it means the objective is mainly a racing one and not some long-range plan to syndicate the horse for tens of millions of dollars, based in good measure on bloodlines. In short, this was a Kentucky Derby purchase.


Told ya bdw

[griff]

so, it's Vineyard Haven, not Vinyard haven

griff

[oliverstoned]

Damn my spelling. Sorry griff.

[Hold Your Peace]

Had Frankel NOT sold he should have been commited.

$12 million. Wow.

Because no matter what this horse wins, even the Derby, he's not going to be a desirable stallion prospect. There have been other truly outstanding racehorses, with unappealing pedigrees, go to stud and invariably they wind up in a regional market standing for $3,500 and getting about 20 mares a year.

Look at one of the Sheikh's earlier "Derby hopeful" purchases, Express Tour. He didn't have a couple of Grade I wins on his resume like Vineyard Haven, but he seemed like he had that kind of potential, and he did go on to win the UAE Derby and then come back to the US and win the Grade II Jerome and place in the Grade I Woodward. He stands in Florida for a 2008 fee of $2,000 and in 2008 he only bred 12 mares. Interestingly Express Tour stands at the same farm as Vineyard Haven's sire Lido Palace. And that same farm, Lambholm, could easily be the future home of Vineyard Haven as well.

Oh and a quick show of support for Express Tour, you sport horse folks should seek out his offspring in the future as he's definitely got size, and he's a direct male line descendant of Secretariat, and he can get some flashy chestnuts with chrome. You should be able to pick up an Express Tour gelding for nothing one day in the future and they should have just what the sport horse folks want.

[tbrace]

Actually, Staff Writer, sire of Timely Writer was a great sire that did huge things with little chance.

Son of Northern Dancer, Staff Writer was hurt in training and unraced. So they shipped him off to the hinter-lands.

But, standing in Washington (leading sire many times) and Idaho (leading sire many times) of all places, he had some great runners.

His daughters have been great producers, and the last ones are in great demand in the northwest.

Good sire lines and well known sire lines are two different things. The horse that the arabs bought has every right to be a good horse by blood - just not by popular bloodline.

This is why many who breed to race, and who have done their homework, are having some good success right now. You can't sell a yearling, but you can sure race a good 2-3 year old.

[Danzig]

Someone offer me 10 mill for that horse im doing cartwheels off the rood of my house.

Its a BUSINESS people. make money thats what its all about.

The sooner the money grubbing clowns go by the wayside as a result of the global recession, the sooner we can have our sport back...where true horsemen breed real racehorses, unlike the commercial jokers who breed pretty show horses from supposed hot, albeit unproven and unsound, stallions.