The World's Best Horses

[wangkw]

Turf : Nijinsky, Dubai Millennium
Dirt : Cigar, Secretariat
Mixed : Dubai Millennium, Secretariat
Long Distace : MAKYBE DIVA, Deep Impact
Mare : MAKYBE DIVA

Dont agree ?

[Danzig]

Sprint: Silent Witness

[Sysonby]

Substitute Spectacular Bid for Cigar....

[steward]

I'm a bit puzzled every time that someone opines that Secretariat was such a great grass horse. He had a couple of starts in which he beat a few decent-but-not-champion turf specimens. Kennedy Road? It was the last career start for an older horse in bad form who struggled in his previous races against no-names. Big Spruce, London Company, West Coast Scout? Again, solid but not mouth-dropping. Secretariat beat what was running on grass in America at the time, but Dahlia handled them later that year in the identical fashion at the DC International. (In her case, she had to fly across the pond to do it.) Dahlia was a great one, but no one puts her in the top tier of all time.

The Secretariat fans lose their marbles on a regular basis.

[Tiz]

Blasphemy!

[ratherrapid]

dubai millenium. lol!

[Roar]

several fan ............. BIG BROWN
..

[Barn 31 T-breds]

I'm a bit puzzled every time that someone opines that Secretariat was such a great grass horse. He had a couple of starts in which he beat a few decent-but-not-champion turf specimens. Kennedy Road? It was the last career start for an older horse in bad form who struggled in his previous races against no-names. Big Spruce, London Company, West Coast Scout? Again, solid but not mouth-dropping. Secretariat beat what was running on grass in America at the time, but Dahlia handled them later that year in the identical fashion at the DC International. (In her case, she had to fly across the pond to do it.) Dahlia was a great one, but no one puts her in the top tier of all time.

The Secretariat fans lose their marbles on a regular basis.

I think it should be noted that the "couple of races" were the Man O' War and the Canadian International Championship Stakes - both major stakes.

He won both in handy fashion at classic distance, and he probably could have broken world records if that's what he needed to do to win.

Apparently, somebody kept the clock on him at the end of the 1 1/2 mile Man O' War and caught him overrunning the finish line by another furlong,
running 1 5-8 miles in a world-record-equaling time of 2:37 4-5.

That despite being 5 in front at the wire.

As far as competition goes, they were lucky to find anyone willing to race against Secretariat by the time he made his grass debut.

It's kinda tough to sacrifice a good horse racing for second money.

Make no mistake about it, Secretariat was a great horse, whether he raced on dirt, turf, or broken glass.

[Barn 31 T-breds]

Sorry, double posted somehow

[steward]

As far as competition goes, they were lucky to find anyone willing to race against Secretariat by the time he made his grass debut.

It's kinda tough to sacrifice a good horse racing for second money.

Make no mistake about it, Secretariat was a great horse, whether he raced on dirt, turf, or broken glass.

LOL. It wasn't like there were any spectacular turf horses kept in the barn for fear of Secretariat. If dodging is the claim, who exactly dodged the foreigners in the DC International for fear of another loss?

By the way, does "broken glass" include off tracks? Big Red took the lead against Prove Out and then got his doors blown off down the stretch by the big bad 4yo. Suddenly, the soft turf company began to look more inviting to the syndicate.

[Barn 31 T-breds]

If dodging is the claim, who exactly dodged the foreigners in the DC International for fear of another loss?

By the way, does "broken glass" include off tracks? Big Red took the lead against Prove Out and then got his doors blown off down the stretch by the big bad 4yo. Suddenly, the soft turf company began to look more inviting to the syndicate.

Now think of the logic of your contention that Secretariat dodged somebody in the DC International.

It was you who said that Dahlia essentially beat the same horses that Secretariat raced against at Woodbine. If that's the truth, why would he dodge horses that he had beaten so handily? You know, the "soft turf company", as you describe it? Doesn't make much sense, does it?

Secretariat dodged nobody. The fact is that he accomplished all that was needed to send him off to the breeding shed without risking injury in another 1 1/2 mile race. So why do it?

To contend that making a prudent business decision is "dodging" is way off base.

With regard to Prove Out, you picked not a horse, but a trainer, that I have always had great admiration for.

If Secretariat is my example of the all-time horse, Allen Jerkens is my example of the all-time trainer.

(While you're at it, throw in Onion, another masterful training job by Jerkens)

Anyway, if your standard for greatness is being undefeated, that leaves... hmmmm... let me see..... nobody?

The only thing that was proved the day Secretariat was beaten by Prove Out is that anything can happen in horse racing. If the same race had been run 20 times, perhaps Secretariat would have won 19. On that day, he didn't. So what?

Apparently what you want to do is to cherry pick a couple of blemishes on a great horse's record and try to somehow use them to deflate his accomplishments.

That certainly won't work with me, and my guess is it won't work with most people who saw him race.

Oh, and as for the "soft turf company", sorry that Round Table or Fort Marcy werent in those fields. There's a more than slight chance that Secretariat was good enough to beat them, too. Unfortunately, we'll never know. But one thing is for sure. You can never make the assumption that he couldn't have beaten them.

Here's what Ron Turcotte said on the subject of Secretariat's turf ability:

"Some people may not believe me," jockey Ron Turcotte said later,"but I always thought he was an even better horse on grass than dirt."

That's the opinion of the guy who rode him.

Forgive me if I give his opinion more weight than yours.

[Nessa]

As far as competition goes, they were lucky to find anyone willing to race against Secretariat by the time he made his grass debut.

It's kinda tough to sacrifice a good horse racing for second money.

Make no mistake about it, Secretariat was a great horse, whether he raced on dirt, turf, or broken glass.

LOL. It wasn't like there were any spectacular turf horses kept in the barn for fear of Secretariat. If dodging is the claim, who exactly dodged the foreigners in the DC International for fear of another loss?

By the way, does "broken glass" include off tracks? Big Red took the lead against Prove Out and then got his doors blown off down the stretch by the big bad 4yo. Suddenly, the soft turf company began to look more inviting to the syndicate.

Secretariat was coming back to the track off an illness and he was a year younger than Prove Out in the Woodward. He proved that Prove Out was no threat when he was completely healthy, when he demolished him later in the year when he took the Marlboro Cup in world record time.
It's a shame he didn't get the opportunity to prove that he was a great enough racehorse to your satisfaction.

[Sylvie Hebert]

Watch Secretariat's Triple Crown again...that should settle it...

[Bid]

No shock that I agree with Sysonby about Spectacular Bid. Don't we want to consider Personal Ensign for the girls. Haven't seen many run better than her.

[Whirlaway]

I think the greatest horse I've ever laid eyes on or I should say the closest thing to the greatest horse I've ever laid eyes on was Sunday Silence, but he couldn't hold a candle to the true greatness of horses like Citation, Dr. Fager, Kelso and the kind ...

Although I don't think I've ever seen a great horse in the flesh, I've had the pleasure of watching a lot of classic videos and I was never more impressed then when I saw the video of Sea-Bird in the 1965 Epsom Derby. I thought then and I still think there was no race horse any better.

Below is the link, scroll down to the third race and you'll find the 1965 Epsom Derby and many other classics. Take a look at that race . . .


http://www.chef-de-race.com/video/race_videos.htm