Kantharos retired already

[ElPrado]

Injured in a work this morning. Story isn't even up yet, but the headline is shown as breaking news right on top of the web page at the Thoroughbred Times site.

[KBEquine]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... dium=email

[Derby2004]

Dang, not even September and the leading 2 yo is done. So who is the top colt now?

[Barbaro06]

I don't get over excited about who is leading the division as two year olds. Most won't make it to the spring because of one reason or another. Sad, but true.

[ElPrado]

As far as potential goes, he was basically a sprinter. I wouldn't have expected him in the Derby. The farther he went, the shorter the winning margin. He could have been the top sprinting 3 year old next year.

[diomed]

Any bets on how long it will take Louis to declare the Kantharos was a FB?

[dublino]

Any bets on how long it will take Louis to declare the Kantharos was a FB?

He said a few pages back in his Thesis that Kantharos was a FB and would brake down.

People laughed at him and said how many starts Louis less than 9 etc.

They said he was putting his neck on the line making a prediction of unsoundness.

KANTHAROS (USA) ch. C, 2008 DP = 5-0-9-0-0 (14) DI = 2.11 CD = 0.71 - 3 Starts, 3 Wins, 0 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $185,213

Owner: Stonestreet Stable LLC
Breeder: Hedberg Hall Inc.
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 3 Starts: 3 - 0 - 0, $185,213

At 2: Won Saratoga Special S. (G2,Sar,6.5F), Bashford Manor S. (G3,CD,6F)

KEESEP09:$80K; OBSMAR10:$250K

KANTHAROS ch. C, 2008
Lion Heart---Contessa Halo by Southern Halo

K is a FB with 28 Ph. sireline Stallions out of a possible 31 in his 5 generation pedigree.
K has 10 crosses of NP sireline mares & 6 crosses of Ph. sireline mares.
K is Inbred 4 X 4 Mr. P.---4 X 4 Hail to Reason---4 X 5 ND---5 X 5 RAN---5 X 5 Turn-to---5 X 5 Gold Digger mare by Nashua

K Inbreeding is thru all Ph. sireline Individuals. Most all FB are bred to win early,then will make single digit starts before going to the side lines with an Injury.

When you look at K conformation photo, you can see the frail small bone he Inherited thru his prolific crosses of his Ph. sireline Inbreeding. His conformation reads FB, small frame.

[diomed]

Oh, I missed that one. I must've been busy that week.
I noticed he posted that today though. What other day or week did he post this. I swear, sometimes it's hard keeping up with that never ending thread.

[dublino]

Oh, I missed that one. I must've been busy that week.
I noticed he posted that today though. What other day or week did he post this. I swear, sometimes it's hard keeping up with that never ending thread.

Eh no you didn't, just like the rest of them, when you are wrong you cannot admit it.

Shammy, he won't read it and you know it.
I have suggested the same with "other" published pedigree experts(who also have "hands on" experience BTW) and he just ignores.
I bet he has never spent a day reading the analysis' over on Pedigreepost.
He won't acknowledge Alan Porter, Les Brinsfield, Anne Peters, Byron Rogers, Edwin Anthony, etc...Oh, that's right..They aren't dead yet.
Many of these folks also knew Leon Rasmussen and their opinions of his work differ far from Louis'. (their opinions where not negative about Rasmussen, they just came to differing conclusions).

Every time Louis spouts I can't help but LMAO. It is so predictable.
Which is why I don't participate as much in this thread.

What Shammy said

Louis posted:

I have been working around tbs for 50+ years, I can spot a FB miles away, & I can spot a NFB the same. I have been playing this tb game FB & NFB too long to be fooled by posters that sit in front of their computers all day & say they know it all.

Inbreeding to the max will breed degeneration of the skelton, lets follow K & see how many starts will come his way.

Ah, Louis, who is trying to fool who here. I take offense to your disparaging judgements. My thousands of hours of practical equine education and hands on experience with the horse, leaves your hours of annecdotal "ink printed" and "conversational" experience heaped in the backstretch manure pile. You confront everyone who suggest alternative theories or approaches to you with some disparaging term in hopes that they will weep tears and go sulk in the corner. Take off the pedigree expert "haloween" custume and reveal yourself as the imposter you are.

Parlo said

Certain types of people appear in many forums.

Some times ago we talked about selective perception and anecdotal evidence as (invalid) attempts to produce scientific results.
Now, a friend of mine led my attention on this phenomenon of human behavior:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2 ... ger_effect

BenB said

Louis, cry a river and jump over it.

XFactor Fan said

Actually, Louis may have made a tactical error. He has in print made a concrete prediction about a horse. Indeed let's see what happens to Kantharos.

Georgez said

Louis already said single digits, which means no more than nine starts, lifetime.

And finally ElPrado

Don't you know? The horse is only inbred if Louis says it is. And he changes his mind hourly.
You could be breeding a full brother and sister together... if Louis is in FB mode, it is bad breeding. If he is in the mood to tout NFB, he will declare that not to be inbreeding.
I think it depends on what he has for breakfast. If he had eggs and bacon, that's a pro inbreeding day. Corn flakes, it's a day for anti inbreeding. If he had had oatmeal, all bets are off. He flips a coin.

[xfactor fan]

Dublino,

Even the blind squirrel finds the nut sometimes.

We've had years of Louis making after the fact predictiions. He finally came out and admitted that he "can spot a FB a mile away." He then goes back and looks at the pedigree, which is why he keeps changing the standards for what is a FB vs NFB

If he wanted to make predictions on Louis thinks this horse will break down because of conformation, that would be another situation, and he wouldn't come in for the bashing that a number of us have done over the years.

My objection is trying to claim some sort of scientific basis for the visual (and subjective) assesment of any given TB.

If he wanted to change the designations to LL (Louis Likes) and LDL (Louis doesn't like) I'd have no problem with his posts.

[dublino]

Dublino,

Even the blind squirrel finds the nut sometimes.

So you are admitting that Louis was right, thats a start.

We've had years of Louis making after the fact predictiions. He finally came out and admitted that he "can spot a FB a mile away." He then goes back and looks at the pedigree, which is why he keeps changing the standards for what is a FB vs NFB

Don't you think that maybe he can spot one and that his trained eye is better and more sophisticated than yours?
And that your jealously of him is clouding your judgement?
Also inbreeding is becoming more and more prolific over the past 5 years, maybe thats why Louis definitions is expanding/changing with time?

If he wanted to make predictions on Louis thinks this horse will break down because of conformation, that would be another situation, and he wouldn't come in for the bashing that a number of us have done over the years.

At least you are admitting that you and your cronies are bashing him, shame on you for someone trying to educate people on the harmfull sideffects of too much inbreeding, maybe you should apologise to Louis for your cyber bashing/bullying of him.

My objection is trying to claim some sort of scientific basis for the visual (and subjective) assesment of any given TB.

If he wanted to change the designations to LL (Louis Likes) and LDL (Louis doesn't like) I'd have no problem with his posts.

Ah yes more derision to complete your post - good for you ignore the facts, Louis said the horse was unsound and broke down before his 9th start as what happens to LDL FB horse.

[bdw0617]

louis pawned every last one of you fools.


it is impossible to b e viewed as a genius without having first been seen as an idiot.

[diomed]

Dublino,
Maybe we would all take his research seriously if he would also listen to others.
Factor in systematic and consistent research.(he has been asked to do so for a long time now).
I will take the word of open-minded scientists like Emeline Hill over a person who when you ask them to read what others have discovered insinuates that they don't know squat(he assumes these people don't have an eye and aren't around horses..Flat out wrong.)
Sorry...Not buying your BS.

[reenci]

the fact is ..HE CALLED IT. ..i know he rant's...but the man knows what he is talking about......like him or not.....HE CALLED IT. .....louis can point and say"score board"....give the man his due.

[dublino]

Dublino,
Maybe we would all take his research seriously if he would also listen to others.
So he has to listen to others who bash him and demean him, why?

Factor in systematic and consistent research.(he has been asked to do so for a long time now).
Like predicting which horses through his FB matings will brake down before they brake down, that is not only research to the highest degree its also soothsaying.

I will take the word of open-minded scientists like Emeline Hill over a person who when you ask them to read what others have discovered insinuates that they don't know squat(he assumes these people don't have an eye and aren't around horses..Flat out wrong.)
Obviously they don't know squat if they are encouraging this FB matings - just because people have letters after their name doesn't mean they know anything, it just means they acquired something.
Obviously his eye is superior to theirs, I wonder if Jess Jackson will be contacting Louis for buying advice, maybe he should - who would want to be paying $200k for horses that brake down after 4 starts?

Sorry...Not buying your BS.
This makes me laugh, its your BS that the rest of us can see through now, not mine.