man I hate bob baffert

[bdw0617]

seriously man where does he get all these horses lol? It's just not fair. He can't be the only one who can train/pick out a good horse. It's to the point I damn near blindly bet his first timers.

[louis finochio]

Baf came over to the tb from QH, He has the racers edge eye for those tb that have Inherited the speed thru their FB Inbreeding. They may not last long, but he will put them in the winners circle if they have the ability.

Bob knows when to back off, when those FB become sore & off their feed. His high roller clientele, lov his style, thats why he attracts their attention.
Bob has professional help, that have been with him since he came upon the tb scene.

[Joltman]

seriously man where does he get all these horses lol? It's just not fair. He can't be the only one who can train/pick out a good horse. It's to the point I damn near blindly bet his first timers.

Duh - if you can blindly bet his first timers you should have cashed enough by now to have him train one for you I should think?

On a more serious note, it's amazing how he does develop these hot 3yos this time of year. But then, that's his program - and he has it fine tuned. Just don't bet them at 4, if he has any left by then.

jm

[bdw0617]

seriously man where does he get all these horses lol? It's just not fair. He can't be the only one who can train/pick out a good horse. It's to the point I damn near blindly bet his first timers.

Duh - if you can blindly bet his first timers you should have cashed enough by now to have him train one for you I should think?

On a more serious note, it's amazing how he does develop these hot 3yos this time of year. But then, that's his program - and he has it fine tuned. Just don't bet them at 4, if he has any left by then.

jm

of course i over-exaggerated just a tad, but, let me put it this way. usually when there is "hype" around a horse, they don't live up to it. Bob's horses ALWAYS do. When I see the right type of action on a BB first timer I do jump in, it's always smart money.

That's the thing. BB is a February trainer. not a November trainer. I would like to see what a carla gaines could do with the factor (I like Carla gaines alot), or see what Richard Mandela can do with horreyforhollywood.

[da hossman]

Money - having the money to buy the best horses - The Factor was a $250k sales topper - Lookin At Lucky was $450k - Baffert has a good eye and is a talented horseman...and he has good horsemen shopping & working for him, but in the end the most important "Factor" may be Baffert's celebrity, charisma and charm which draw the money. Without the wherewithall to buy the best....well let's just say you have to start with talent to train a top horse.

[Sysonby]

Money - having the money to buy the best horses - The Factor was a $250k sales topper - Lookin At Lucky was $450k - Baffert has a good eye and is a talented horseman...and he has good horsemen shopping & working for him, but in the end the most important "Factor" may be Baffert's celebrity, charisma and charm which draw the money. Without the wherewithall to buy the best....well let's just say you have to start with talent to train a top horse.

And numbers. I've heard from good sources that Pletcher and Baffert start the year with at least 100 3 year olds each (with the fanciest breeding and the best prospects) and then you see who's standing in the end. Their numbers are designed to beat the inevitable attrition.

[da hossman]

True - numbers and money. I am not disparaging his horsemanship, but realize there are other equally talented horsemen that do not have the social or promotional skills to get the necessary raw material.

Most of your leading trainers have huge numbers of horses, which is why it so impressive and so much more fun to see a smaller outfit do well.

[Aug27]

Both of them (BB and TP) posted 25% Win pct last year.
If it was just a numbers game, they wouldn't be that high. The must be good horsemen with excellent organizational / delegational skills, and people working for them who know what they're doing.

Plus, they have the wealthy backers, as stated above ... so they get the best to work with from the get-go.

Imagine what Barclay Tagg (comes to mind as a horsemen without those "people skills") could do under similar circumstances.

[Joltman]

Money - having the money to buy the best horses - The Factor was a $250k sales topper - Lookin At Lucky was $450k - Baffert has a good eye and is a talented horseman...and he has good horsemen shopping & working for him, but in the end the most important "Factor" may be Baffert's celebrity, charisma and charm which draw the money. Without the wherewithall to buy the best....well let's just say you have to start with talent to train a top horse.

He's also had his Real Quiets and Preachin at the Bars that just plain outran their pedigree and looks.

jm

[Heidilady]

seriously man where does he get all these horses lol? It's just not fair. He can't be the only one who can train/pick out a good horse. It's to the point I damn near blindly bet his first timers.

Duh - if you can blindly bet his first timers you should have cashed enough by now to have him train one for you I should think?

On a more serious note, it's amazing how he does develop these hot 3yos this time of year. But then, that's his program - and he has it fine tuned. Just don't bet them at 4, if he has any left by then.

jm

Well his 4yo stats are a bit skewed though. Lookin At Lucky would've been really nice this year, but he got retired. I'd say when you put the emphasis on the TC like Bob does, you end up with some horses getting wiped out, but the ones that don't might get shelved before they even turn 4 because they did enough at 3 to justify a stud career. A horse that could blow the doors off the place at 4 might not even get a chance to run like LAL or Point Given.

Real Quiet and Midnight Lute did well as older horses. RQ got 2 G1s at 4 and ML got 2 G1s at 4, 1 at 5 including his back to back BC Sprint wins. Indian Blessing got a G2 and placed in the Dubai Golden Shaheen at 4 and it's harder to keep mares going at the top level that long (see Rachel Alexandra). Bob can handle older horses if his owners don't go and retire them before they get that far.

[bdw0617]

I honestly, cannot think of 1 stakes winning turf horse that bob b has trained

[Sysonby]

I honestly, cannot think of 1 stakes winning turf horse that bob b has trained

Senor Swinger?

[tbrace]

Bob likes early developing dirt horses - just like quarter horses. And he has that QH mentality of use them and lose them. Four, five, six, year olds? No way.

Not my style, but lots of owners with a little money would rather be in the winners circle a few times, get rid of the horse, and buy new ones at the sales.

[Joltman]

On a more serious note, it's amazing how he does develop these hot 3yos this time of year. But then, that's his program - and he has it fine tuned. Just don't bet them at 4, if he has any left by then.

jm

Well his 4yo stats are a bit skewed though. Lookin At Lucky would've been really nice this year, but he got retired. I'd say when you put the emphasis on the TC like Bob does, you end up with some horses getting wiped out, but the ones that don't might get shelved before they even turn 4 because they did enough at 3 to justify a stud career. A horse that could blow the doors off the place at 4 might not even get a chance to run like LAL or Point Given.

Real Quiet and Midnight Lute did well as older horses. RQ got 2 G1s at 4 and ML got 2 G1s at 4, 1 at 5 including his back to back BC Sprint wins. Indian Blessing got a G2 and placed in the Dubai Golden Shaheen at 4 and it's harder to keep mares going at the top level that long (see Rachel Alexandra). Bob can handle older horses if his owners don't go and retire them before they get that far.

Point well made, but if you look at the numbers, especially the bucks for the big ones, its a longshot that they'll be both healthy and running at 4, let alone at the end of year 4. He need make not apologies - he does what he does and people pay him big time for it, except that maybe there are a lot of well bred horses that wind up with their owners in the poor farm. Such is the nature of the BB game/business. Guy seems like a lot of fun for the ride though.

jm

[bdw0617]

the only problem I have with that, is the "what ifs" meaning like... what type o horses is he quote unquote running into the ground trying to find a golden nugget. you know, for instance the Mosses use 2 trainers, sherriffs and sadler. how much different would the last 3 years been had they sent zenyatta to sadler instead of sherriffs? That's a question I ask myself quite often actually.