This is a question which came up on the All Breed board. I thought I had heard owners here talk about their TB sprinters running in some QH races, and I thought I would put the question to rest by asking folks over here.
Thanks,
Inyureye
Do TBs ever race against QHs?
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sulphurfire
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They have mixed breed races at a lot of the Southwestern tracks, usually at 870yds. Seems like there's even been some open to racing Paints and Appaloosas as well as TBs and QHs (must make for a colorful field!), but my memory could be faulty. I know Michael's pride and joy Bang has won some good races in these mixed breed events.
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis
I think that thoroughbreds are only allowed to enter the so-called "hook" races - races of 870yds distance - against QHs as far as offical AQH racing is concerned. That type of race in other words would be the longest distance at which the outcome would be considered "offical" for AQHA registry/record keeping purposes.
However, I don't think that latter fact would necessarily prevent a track from creating a race of say 1,000yds open to QHs, Appendix-QHs and Thoroughbreds if they had the interest from their horsemen and owners to do so and thought it would attract fans/bettors. However the results of such a race would not be "Officially" part of the winner's records for either the QHs' or the Thoroughbreds' respective breed registries - even when won in "record" time. That record would be a historical one for that track, that event....but not an offical record per any breed registry that I can think of.
Michael can tell us more about Bang's history of running against QHs - at what distances, etc. and whether or not any of those outs are part of his 'offical' JCA Race Record or not.
"Hook Races" are races of typically 870yds that start on the backstretch a short distance before entering the second or 'final turn' into the homestretch. (I don't know if there are ever hook races of distances shorter than 870yds - at the recent SHRP QH Meet the program would jump from the 550yd races to the 870yd races, I don't recall any races at distances in between those two marks. I do know that a JCA TB is not eligible to enter the 550yd and shorter races.)
Typically, in a "hook race", to have a chance to win the horses must get out of the gate very fast (favoring QHs) and get up to their top speed quickly enough to be on or near the lead so if from a middle or outside post they are able to move over to the rail/inside tracks going around that turn. IF they are unable to execute that maneuver in a very few strides out of the gate they will be running a much longer race than the horses that do run on the rail. Sometimes a thoroughbred who is very fast on the front end of it's races can outrun the QHs, Appendix QHs that have the inside position and hit the stretch at full stride on the outside with enough speed and stamina to win from that less favorable position. Occaisionally, but rarely, at SHRP's QH meets I've seen a horse taking the turn wide but fast enough to be just behind the leaders have the chance to cut in towards the rail at the top of the stretch and then come on either between "leaders" or on the rail to win or place.
The 'tightness' of the turn can also come into play when thoroughbreds are being entered and raced against their QH cousins. A thoroughbred of close coupled body type that is not too tall can 'scamper' with the QHs on fairly equal terms - raw speed/stride efficiency of the horse plus "heart" or try being the deciding factor in such a contest. A longer legged, longer bodied TB - more typical of the true TB 'sprinter' type - would, I think, be at a slight disadvantage to the QHs for getting into his maximum stride efficiency as quickly out of the gate as the QHs typically do and perhaps need a stride or two more than his QH competitors to get up to his maximum efficient stride.
It is these longest of recognized QH races where you see full thoroughbreds and more typically Appendix QHs entered against QHs. My understanding is that if the full blooded thoroughbred wins/places or shows that it's winnings will not be part of that horse's JCA stats as to LTE or as part of that horse's outs/placings records from the JCA. Nor (I think) will it be honored by the AQHA's race records as the horse is not a registered QH in any sense, but I may be wrong about the latter. (?? - Perhaps that is how a thoroughbred 'qualifies' to be bred to QH mares or stallions and thereby produce an Appendix QH? I was told once that an Appendix registered QH must earn R.O.M. status in recognized AQHA Races before the AQHA will allow any offspring that result from matings of that Appendix QH with a QH to be registered in the AQHA registry as a "Quarterhorse". I think - but am not sure of this - that an Appendix registered QH may not be bred to another Appendix registered QH and be registered as a QH......
OK, I'm getting on thin ice here as to what I "know" and what I "think" I know......Quarterhorse people - HELP - and please correct me if I have erred here.
However, I don't think that latter fact would necessarily prevent a track from creating a race of say 1,000yds open to QHs, Appendix-QHs and Thoroughbreds if they had the interest from their horsemen and owners to do so and thought it would attract fans/bettors. However the results of such a race would not be "Officially" part of the winner's records for either the QHs' or the Thoroughbreds' respective breed registries - even when won in "record" time. That record would be a historical one for that track, that event....but not an offical record per any breed registry that I can think of.
Michael can tell us more about Bang's history of running against QHs - at what distances, etc. and whether or not any of those outs are part of his 'offical' JCA Race Record or not.
"Hook Races" are races of typically 870yds that start on the backstretch a short distance before entering the second or 'final turn' into the homestretch. (I don't know if there are ever hook races of distances shorter than 870yds - at the recent SHRP QH Meet the program would jump from the 550yd races to the 870yd races, I don't recall any races at distances in between those two marks. I do know that a JCA TB is not eligible to enter the 550yd and shorter races.)
Typically, in a "hook race", to have a chance to win the horses must get out of the gate very fast (favoring QHs) and get up to their top speed quickly enough to be on or near the lead so if from a middle or outside post they are able to move over to the rail/inside tracks going around that turn. IF they are unable to execute that maneuver in a very few strides out of the gate they will be running a much longer race than the horses that do run on the rail. Sometimes a thoroughbred who is very fast on the front end of it's races can outrun the QHs, Appendix QHs that have the inside position and hit the stretch at full stride on the outside with enough speed and stamina to win from that less favorable position. Occaisionally, but rarely, at SHRP's QH meets I've seen a horse taking the turn wide but fast enough to be just behind the leaders have the chance to cut in towards the rail at the top of the stretch and then come on either between "leaders" or on the rail to win or place.
The 'tightness' of the turn can also come into play when thoroughbreds are being entered and raced against their QH cousins. A thoroughbred of close coupled body type that is not too tall can 'scamper' with the QHs on fairly equal terms - raw speed/stride efficiency of the horse plus "heart" or try being the deciding factor in such a contest. A longer legged, longer bodied TB - more typical of the true TB 'sprinter' type - would, I think, be at a slight disadvantage to the QHs for getting into his maximum stride efficiency as quickly out of the gate as the QHs typically do and perhaps need a stride or two more than his QH competitors to get up to his maximum efficient stride.
It is these longest of recognized QH races where you see full thoroughbreds and more typically Appendix QHs entered against QHs. My understanding is that if the full blooded thoroughbred wins/places or shows that it's winnings will not be part of that horse's JCA stats as to LTE or as part of that horse's outs/placings records from the JCA. Nor (I think) will it be honored by the AQHA's race records as the horse is not a registered QH in any sense, but I may be wrong about the latter. (?? - Perhaps that is how a thoroughbred 'qualifies' to be bred to QH mares or stallions and thereby produce an Appendix QH? I was told once that an Appendix registered QH must earn R.O.M. status in recognized AQHA Races before the AQHA will allow any offspring that result from matings of that Appendix QH with a QH to be registered in the AQHA registry as a "Quarterhorse". I think - but am not sure of this - that an Appendix registered QH may not be bred to another Appendix registered QH and be registered as a QH......
OK, I'm getting on thin ice here as to what I "know" and what I "think" I know......Quarterhorse people - HELP - and please correct me if I have erred here.
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sulphurfire
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sulphurfire
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- Location: southwest louisiana
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TBs run against QHs quite a bit at Los Al, Sunland, Yavapai, Wyoming and Turf Paradise. I don't believe they are restricted to the 'hook' races (870) by rule (provided it's written as an "open" race -- meaning anything from QHs to Appys and Paints can be in them) .. only by the fact that they aren't competitive at anything less.
I think the shortest I've seen a TB in was 440. Most stay in the 870 and 1000 yard races.
I think the shortest I've seen a TB in was 440. Most stay in the 870 and 1000 yard races.
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rosethorn2
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QH's against TB's
...one of my breedings was racing against QH's at Los Al until I rescued him two weeks ago. He was ITM alot, but couldn't go farther that 870....breathing problem no one cared to fix. I'm thinking thats a problem with a lot of TB's running that distance. He is currently available for adoption, should anyone be interest in a nice dressage or trail horse. He's in NorCal with me now.
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Regal Pleasure
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jellac wrote: I was told once that an Appendix registered QH must earn R.O.M. status in recognized AQHA Races before the AQHA will allow any offspring that result from matings of that Appendix QH with a QH to be registered in the AQHA registry as a "Quarterhorse". I think - but am not sure of this - that an Appendix registered QH may not be bred to another Appendix registered QH and be registered as a QH......
An Appendix QH must earn a ROM on the track OR in the show ring in order to get "regular" AQHA papers. An Appendix(yellow papers) QH can only be bred to a "regular" (white papers) QH and get a registered foal.(So no breeding an appendix to another appendix, nor breeding an appendix to a TB.)
A white papered QH can be bred to another regular papered horse, an appendix QH, OR a registered TB and get registerable foals.
(And FYI there is No distiction between "regular" papered QHs and Appendix QHs as far as racing or showing. They are both treated equally.)
Appendix horses race at ALL AQHA recognized distances.
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Regal Pleasure
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How far back are you looking?