Considerations for Selecting a Trainer?(advice for a newbie)

[Hot Tamali]

So a little background information:
I’m not a complete newbie. I’ve been around horses my whole life – riding, breeding, etc. I’ve followed TB racing for a number of years. I’ve worked with Standardbred race horses as a groom and learned an incredible amount of information regarding leg care, supplements, vet work and pre-race routines for racehorses. Prior to that I also worked at a big TB farm in their training barn, but not as a groom (they didn’t have grooms). It wasn’t until after I worked with the STBDs that I realized how much care the TBs at this “big” farm were missing out on. I was also shocked to hear from several trainers and grooms that this kind of care (or lack thereof) is pretty much commonplace on the backstretch. I can’t quite wrap my head around this, considering the strain on a racing TB is greater than that of a STBD racer and the value of the horses and purses are often greater in TB racing. Anyway, I should probably start another thread on this because I could go on and on…
So with this in mind, I am considering taking the plunge into TB racing with one of my homebreds. In talking with several trainers I have learned a disgusting amount of information regarding many of the industry’s “professionals”, at both the top and bottom levels. And it scares the heck outta me! I have started compiling a list of questions to ask potential trainers and would like some advice and input on what kind of questions I should be asking. So far, most on my list are more general questions pertaining to feeding, veterinary, and farrier practices, morning routines, conditioning schedules and statistics. What specific questions does everyone ask when choosing a trainer? There are probably many important questions that I should be asking, but just don’t have enough “insider” knowledge to know what to ask.
I know that most trainers do not like owners who are “hands-on” or interfere too much, but there’s a fine line between being respectful and being ignorant. If I am going to be expected to hand my “baby” over to someone, I want to be damn sure that they will be in good hands. I’ve heard numerous times that “horselovers” have no place in horse racing, but I have, over the years, met many caring individuals and would like to believe that they are still out there! This board seems to have many caring AND knowledgeable members… please, help out a newbie!
I realize my post is lengthy and scattered, so in summary: what is your screening process for selecting a caring, knowledgeable AND successful trainer? And what are the most important questions to ask?
Any and all information and advice is welcome!
Thanks in advance!

[Crystal]

I think just as much as you are "interviewing" a trainer they are interviewing you as well. So just look at it as a balancing act. Also remember you may not be their only client who has questions on a daily basis. So give them time to gather information and relay it to you. I.e. let the trainer call you to give you an update you don't need to call them at 6pm on the dot everyday.

I think you'll be fine as long as you let them know you want to be as involved as allowed.

[Barcaldine]

Check with the state racing commission for any drug violations. Ask for references, and do your own homework by contacting other owners whom he hasnt named as references. I am in general disgusted with the training profession so tend to be more suspicious than I perhaps should be, but I have been burned too many times by two-faced liars and hustlers. My finest trainer was an oldtimer named Charlie Comiskey, who continued to wear a tie to the races to the day he died.

[zinn21]

If you are sending him a baby you want someone who is good with young horses, capable of developing their potential. If you want a daily blow by blow you better ask him/her how they feel about phone contact etc. Cost of training needs to be discussed. What is their medication protocol. You need to decide how much input decision making etc. you want and ask him/her how they feel about that. If you are a newbie and have little experience in the racing game I would look for someone who would be willing to educate you and be willing to collaborate. When it's one of your babies it can sometimes be a challenge thinking you know what is best for the horse so you need to be willing to trust your trainer and let him/her do their thing.

[charveyjr]

I am a trainer. What state are you in? Here are some of the questions that I have been asked prior to new owners sending me horses.

What is your day rate?
What is covered with the day rate?
Who pays for Blacksmithing?
Can I have the vet bill me directly?
Outside of emergency vet work, can you call me before administrating any medicine?
What is my race day costs?
What do you feed?
What tracks can you run horses at?
I have even had clients come out to the track and work with me for a day to see what a day in the life was like. That owner sent me two horses and we still have a great relationship. I hope this helps you.

[Joltman]

Well you're where many of us are or have been. And probably 3 yrs down the road will look back and understand what what some of the questions were that you should have asked. I'll mention four things (I never personally found a trainer with all four)

1. I would observe the operation - ask yourself if you see good horsemanship. Care of the horse of the highest importance.

2. There is a very small percentage of who use equine physiology and train their horses far more extensively, ending up with sounder horses and longer careers. You've seen how the sbrd guys work and while tbs cannot hold up to quite as much, most do very little work and are expected to perform well despite it. These trainers are not afraid to start a horse at two - if mature and done properly. Some use European or Australian techniques. There is an opinion article in the TTimes about this on Jan 14.

3. Can they train on the farm - off the track. By far a better environment for the equine athlete.

4. Do they require excellence of themselves, their staff, vendors and even owners? One thing that DW Lucas always did was put that extra effort into those things that are not measured. I think this got him a lot farther than he would have gone. Failing this leads to more of those 'accidents' that derail the operation.

just my humble opinion

jm

[reenci]

ask what there % of purse money is....is it 10% of win or is it 10% of first, second , third , fourth...ect...there are no stupid questions...only the ones you dont ask ...look at there shedrow...is it in disaray ? or neat...do they gallop there own horses ? who pays for galloping ?

[charveyjr]

I think the other 3 are valid. I really think that the best way to get a horse to run at the track is to train at a track. Unless you have a training track at the ranch with the type of surface you plan on running on. The other question you have to ask.

[photofinish]

1. I would observe the operation - ask yourself if you see good horsemanship. Care of the horse of the highest importance.


jm

I think this is HUGE! I am a trainer and I get really frustrated by owners who come to me after being with So-and-So for X years and they know nothing of what their horses are doing. I am guilty of "information overload" myself. I am just figuring out how to back up when the owners' eyes glaze over, lol.

When appraoched by new owners I talk with them a bit, figure out their goals, have turned a few down who are "win at any cost". But, after a little bit of chat I just tell them to come to the barn. Anyone can blow smoke up your keester, but the horses will tell the tale. You sound knowledgable enough to see what you you need to see. Training for breeders is, IMO, verry different from training for claiming owners. Personally, I am more comfortable with breeders because they are in it for the longhaul and tend to be more patient with the horses'. Many of the claiming owners are in it for now and to hell with if he can walk out of his stall tomorrow. Generalizations for sure, but that has been my experience.

Look for a trainer who is comfortable with you in the shedrow how ever much you want to be. I have one owner who is at the barn roughly 6 days a week, another is there 3-4 days a week. They really don't care if their horse has already gone or not, they just like ton pet them and hang out. As long as they are not dispruptive (had a disruptive one years ago and he was not allowed in the barn until 9:30 and could pick 3 of his horses a day he wanted to see gallop, LoL) I enjoy them and like the fact that they know what goes into their horses every day. We work our butts off in the barn and they see it. They never complain about day rate, they know how much effort goes into their horses' health and happiness.

Good Luck with your new endeavour!!

[Hot Tamali]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions so far! Definitely a few things I hadn't thought of. I really do appreciate you taking the time to help me out!
BTW, I'm located in Ontario, so if anyone would like to add a recommendation (or warning!) for either Fort Erie or Woodbine trainers, please feel free to shoot me a PM.
Thanks!

[cewright]

Maybe a little different viewpoint here... Finances are important but the most important thing is compatibility. If you and the trainer are not compatible you will not be happy no-matter how much or little the day rate is!

Are you and the trainer compatible in terms of training and racing philosophy?
Does the trainer run at the tracks you are interested in?
Is the trainer a sprint specialist, a route specialist, a turf specialist?
Does the trainer run a training barn or a racing barn?
What type of preparation does the trainer expect the horse to have when it arrives at the barn?
How will the trainer evaluate the horse?
What is the trainer's philosophy on owner communication?
What is your trainer's philosophy/history on vet care?
Does the trainer have any "special" or priority owners?

[Fair Play]

Since you are a horse person with a homebred, I feel you need a small barn that will give you the attention you prefer. In my experience, a small trainer who is hands on and who has or is a really good rider would be preferable to a huge barn who hires all manner of individual, some good, but some I wouldn't let look after a dead Shetland pony, let alone ride anything. And as others have said, get references from people whose opinions you trust, look at his/her horses, equipment, shed, hay, feed, etc and decide if you could be happy there. Some people talk like your horse will be in a palace, but their barn is a pigsty and there is no attention to detail. The more attention you give selecting the trainer now, the better the chance that you will be able to afford to send another homebred for training down the road. Good luck.

[casallc]

If they won't talk to you and act like they don't have any interest in you or your horses - they are probably OK. If they take time to talk to you and act like they want your horses - RUN, they probably really suck.

[Diane]

All good advice. What Casallc said is probably true too. Our trainer has 40 horses at HP last I heard. He's full. He's a good guy. He's very busy. To get him to take on another horse it would have to be one that was already working, showing speed and doing everything right at the training track. If you find people aren't returning your calls that might be why.
Best of luck

[stlouiskid]

I have had several trainers over the years, and it has definitely been the good the bad and the ugly. They all had their strengths and weakness.
The best trainer I ever had was the first one 25 years ago. But he got tired of all the b.s. in the business and quit. Last I heard he was selling cars in Texas and doing well.
Some of the things I looked for were what kind of help they had, because they are the people that are going to spend the most time with your horse. I have found that the hispanic help is the best, one trainer of mine had the wives and husbands working and they were very dedicated.
Look for warning signs, drinking is a big problem in the race business, even among some trainers.
Are they showing up early every day. Not all trainers do.
The trainer I had last year had a good operation, but he was very frustrating because he never wants to have to talk to his clients. Wouldn't answer his phone and expected you to see when they were running from stable watch. I finally got mad at him, I sent him a couple horses that had been in training and had several works, but it still took him 4 months to get them to the races. And one turns out had a hairline crack in his cannon bone, but the trainer never figured it out. I had a vet xray and he found it. This is a guy who one 100 races last year, so that is not always a good indicator.
The strangest situation I had is the trainer I had in Chicago 5 years ago just pled guilty to cocaine distribution and will be sentenced in March. He is looking at 10 to life in federal prison. Always were rumors, but truthfully he was great with the horses, and was a nice guy, always seemed to improve them. Won a lot of races for me.
The maddest I ever got at a trainer was 15 years ago, had a two year old filly by Devil's Bag who was tearing it up in the mornings. Jockey who was working her was a friend and he told me it was the best two year old he had ever been on. The trainer had a reputation for really pushing his young horses hard, so I told him to back off and take his time with this one. You know the rest, he called me a week later after breezing her in the mud and said she broke her hip and had to be put down.
I would like to hire Pletcher or Amoss or Chad Brown at $100 bucks a day, but they are out of my league. So I guess the main thing is look for someone who is professional, can communicate, has good people working for him, and has a decent track record.
One other thing to find out his how much they use the vet. Some trainers have a knack for ringing up huge vet bills, without much difference in race results it always seemed to me.