http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... ill-n-dale
Woulda coulda shoulda. Too bad, would have liked to see the beast run in the TC races.
Violence officially retired
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bdw0617
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Violence beat a group of claiming horses to win a grade 1.
M D'Oro went on to terrorize the summer stakes and ran big in the classic.
man get out of here with this argument you can't be serious. comparing grade 1's and grade 2's straight up like they are all created equally will land you in the poor house. You know who else are grade 1 winners at 2? comma to the top, Jaycito and homeboychris. you gonna sit here and tell me that they are all as good as a M D'Oro beucase they matured faster?
Violance, is one of 500 stallions that has a paper grade 1. he beat absoutly no one in the Hollywood Futurity and lost his only derby prep race. He's not a bad horse but by the end of the year, this horse will not be news as far as stallions after we get done with the derby horess and the classic horses. net year he will be an afterthought. and in 2015 they will be looking for offers.
He doesn't have the record, the talent, nor the pedigree for people to remember him 2 years from now.
M D'Oro went on to terrorize the summer stakes and ran big in the classic.
man get out of here with this argument you can't be serious. comparing grade 1's and grade 2's straight up like they are all created equally will land you in the poor house. You know who else are grade 1 winners at 2? comma to the top, Jaycito and homeboychris. you gonna sit here and tell me that they are all as good as a M D'Oro beucase they matured faster?
Violance, is one of 500 stallions that has a paper grade 1. he beat absoutly no one in the Hollywood Futurity and lost his only derby prep race. He's not a bad horse but by the end of the year, this horse will not be news as far as stallions after we get done with the derby horess and the classic horses. net year he will be an afterthought. and in 2015 they will be looking for offers.
He doesn't have the record, the talent, nor the pedigree for people to remember him 2 years from now.
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Violence beat a bunch of claimers in the Cashcall Futurity? Pretty high-end claimers if you ask me. Four of his rivals were stakes winners (two at G3 level); one was the BC Juvie runner-up (who admittedly has been a bust since then); and then there was Oxbow, who ran off and hid from his rivals in the Lecomte Stakes (G3) in his next race. As for the Fountain of Youth, let's not forget that Violence missed by only half a length to a very well-regarded colt even though he probably suffered his career-ending injury during the stretch drive. If Orb goes on to still bigger things, Violence's final race is only going to look that much better.
Now, bdw is right in that equating Violence's grade I with what Medaglia d'Oro did later in his career would be quite a reach. But Violence was pretty clearly the second-best juvenile of 2012 based on his record, which also included a win in the Nashua Stakes (G2), and was co-second highweight on the Experimental Free Handicap. That's nothing to sneeze at, and his pedigree is certainly excellent. He's still likelier to be a disappointment than a champion at stud simply because most good racehorses disappoint; that's the nature of the game. Nonetheless, he does have better credentials for a shot at stud than about 90% of what's in the Stallion Register in any given year.
Now, bdw is right in that equating Violence's grade I with what Medaglia d'Oro did later in his career would be quite a reach. But Violence was pretty clearly the second-best juvenile of 2012 based on his record, which also included a win in the Nashua Stakes (G2), and was co-second highweight on the Experimental Free Handicap. That's nothing to sneeze at, and his pedigree is certainly excellent. He's still likelier to be a disappointment than a champion at stud simply because most good racehorses disappoint; that's the nature of the game. Nonetheless, he does have better credentials for a shot at stud than about 90% of what's in the Stallion Register in any given year.
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis
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bdw0617
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i understand your point but last year's 2YO crop in general was extremely, extremely weak and slow. extremely. and he wasn't even the best horse in the extremely weak and slow crop.
That, is why some years a grade 2 winner is going to be more regarded than a grade 1 winner. they aren't created equal. I don't care that he beat 3 grade 3 winners. could care less.
I remember reading the book Stud I believe that was the book and one of the stallion farm owners, I think the guy who bred xtra heat, said that he was more concerned about the horses actual talent level than what credentials that a horse had. a horse can win a grade 3 and not be able to run. a horse can win a grade 1 race and ot be an elite level horse. a horse can win a grade 2 and be a world class horse. under the right circumstances. with the way trainers spot horses now, ti's not as big of an issue as it was 30 years ago.
i just don't see or feel he's done enough to be in the front of breeder's minds 2 years from now. he's hot now. he will be one of too many "meh" stallions a year and a half from now
That, is why some years a grade 2 winner is going to be more regarded than a grade 1 winner. they aren't created equal. I don't care that he beat 3 grade 3 winners. could care less.
I remember reading the book Stud I believe that was the book and one of the stallion farm owners, I think the guy who bred xtra heat, said that he was more concerned about the horses actual talent level than what credentials that a horse had. a horse can win a grade 3 and not be able to run. a horse can win a grade 1 race and ot be an elite level horse. a horse can win a grade 2 and be a world class horse. under the right circumstances. with the way trainers spot horses now, ti's not as big of an issue as it was 30 years ago.
i just don't see or feel he's done enough to be in the front of breeder's minds 2 years from now. he's hot now. he will be one of too many "meh" stallions a year and a half from now
"When the solution is simple, God is answering.”
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Mood Swings
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Sysonby wrote:dublino wrote:Not with that female family plus Hill n Dale made Medaglia D'Oro and I am sure they will do equally well with this guy.
Looks an excellent Stallion Prospect.
I think you are thinking of Candy Ride. Stonewall had Medaglia d'Oro.
Hill N Dale actually had Medaglia D'Oro to start.
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Mood Swings wrote:Sysonby wrote:dublino wrote:Not with that female family plus Hill n Dale made Medaglia D'Oro and I am sure they will do equally well with this guy.
Looks an excellent Stallion Prospect.
I think you are thinking of Candy Ride. Stonewall had Medaglia d'Oro.
Hill N Dale actually had Medaglia D'Oro to start.
I thought that, thanks for the confirmation.
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