Doping and the Right to Know - Florida

[Whirlaway]

California Horse Racing Board Rule 1843.5 tells us what medications, drugs and other substances are permitted after entry in a race. I am concerned with drugs listed under 1843.5 (g): Phenylbutazone (Bute), Flunixin, Ketoprofen and 1843.5(h): Furosemide and Other Authorized Bleeder Medication.

We’re all familiar with L, means Lasix, black box around the L means first time Lasix. We know b is for Bute. Here is where it gets a little “sticky.” Dr. Gustafson informs us in his article, Alkalinization, Lasix and Milkshaking: A Veterinarian’s View and the CHRB transcripts confirm that Premarin can replace Lasix:

It should be noted here, as well, that California allows trainers to take horses on and off Lasix without public knowledge. The attending veterinarians are allowed to use the steroidal estrogen hormone Premarin instead of Lasix. The California attending veterinarians are at liberty to switch out established race-day Lasix administration for race-day Premarin without the public disclosure of the change. All the while the horse is listed on the program as a Lasix horse race after race, despite differing medication regimens from race to race. This can result in significant variations in the type and dosage of administered medications from race to race, with associated alterations in performance.

So which is it, L or P? Do handicappers have a right to know?

Get even worse. Say I have a horse running on L. CHRB rules allow Other Authorized Bleeder Medication, I’ll label this drug O. In addition to the L/P and O, (if that isn’t enough) the rules allow one of three NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs), Ketoprofen, Flunixin or Phenylbutazone, I choose Flunixin, I'll label this drug F.

So horse goes to the post with L/P(?) + O + F. Do handicappers have a right to know if it is L or P and what about the O and F? I’ve never seen those two listed in the form. How many handicappers even know about the use of the additional drugs?

Down right shame all these drugs.

[ageecee]

Next thing you want to know and be published in the DRF is what time the horse took a in the last 72 hrs and what color it is.

[Whirlaway]

Next thing you want to know and be published in the DRF is what time the horse took a shit the last 72 hrs and what color it is.

Your state, Louisiana, allows three race day medications; they also have 6 adjunct medications from which to choose. Drug store is wide open down there in Cajun country!

Louisiana State Racing Rule 1505:
The nonsteroidal, anti-inflammatory medications designated below may be used in training but may not be administered within 24 hours of a race in which a horse is entered: Phenylbutazone, Oxyphenylbutazone.

Louisiana State Racing Rule 1509:
Permitted Medication – Furosemide by single intravenous injection not less than 150 mcg and not exceed 500 mcg.
a. Approved adjunct, bleeder medications: Ethacrynic Acid, Bumetandine, Estrogen, Ergonovine, Aminno Caproic Acid, Carbazochrome.

So horse goes to the post with L + B/O(?) + E / B / E / E / A / C

Do handicappers have a right to know if it is B or O and what about the SIX OTHER DRUGS? I’ve never seen those listed in the form. How many handicappers even know about the use of the additional drugs?

L + B/O(?) + Ethacrynic Acid - Is a potent diuretic (as if Lasix wasn’t enough).
L + B/O(?) + Bumetanide - Is a loop diuretic with a rapid onset and short duration of action.
L + B/O(?) + Estrogen - (This is an interesting one, lots of stuff on this one!)
L + B/O(?) + Ergonovine - Used for the prevention and control of postpartum hemorrhage.
L + B/O(?) + Amino Caproic Acid - Useful in enhancing hemostasis when fibrinolysis contributes to bleeding.
L + B/O(?) + Carbazochrome - Anti hemorrhagic or hemostatic agent. (Wikipedia)

Down right shame all these drugs.


All drug data found here unless otherwise noted. http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/about.cfm?CFID=107387732&CFTOKEN=e6b0b64601d3f484-0E7FB45B-9A1F-F559-AE1817AFE9D46B37&jsessionid=8430ea9dfa9d697f62534c527d352580615c

[ratherrapid]

La has unique climate problems which may explain some of this.

[madelyn]

....By the way my horse took a shit at 11:21 am this morning hope that helps you-Shes in Friday nite.

That is crude and uncalled for.

[ageecee]

Just trying to give him/her all the info it needs to handicap races.



Whats rude is he/she changed the subject of the thread to include the word Louisiana which was a direct dig at me since im from that state.

[Whirlaway]

Bettors have a right to know what drugs are given to a horse, particularly if they are placing a bet on that horse.

~

In both the California and Louisiana posts, I made a mistake; NSAIDs administered outside of 24 hours are not considered a race day medication; however, if given shortly before the 24 hour cutoff, the drug still remains in the system. In the case of “bute,"

After i.v. injection, blood levels decline with an elimination half-life of 3-10 h. The plasma kinetics of phenylbutazone may be dose dependent, with the plasma half-life increasing as the drug dosage level increases. Plasma residues of the drug at 24 h after a single i.v. dose of 2 g/450 kg average about 0.9 microgram/ml, but considerable variation occurs. If dosing is repeated, the plasma residue accumulates to give mean residual blood levels of approximately 4.5 microgram/ml on Day 5 after 4 days of dosing. (T.Tobin)

The half-life of “bute” is 3-10 hours, but is dose dependent. A roughly 1000 pound horse given 2 grams of “bute” for four days will have 4.5 micrograms per milliliter in plasma on day five. The 4.5 mcg/ml is below the Louisiana threshold - horse is plenty juiced but remains “legal.”

That’s the point, these horses are training and racing on countless drugs, no one knows about it. Louisiana is a fine example, horses are racing on Ethacrynic Acid, Bumetandine, Estrogen, Ergonovine, Aminno Caproic Acid, Carbazochrome and that information isn’t disclosed, racing public doesn’t have a clue.

Down right shame all of these drugs.

[TJ]

Next thing you want to know and be published in the DRF is what time the horse took a shit the last 72 hrs and what color it is.

Your state, Louisiana, allows three race day medications; they also have 6 adjunct medications from which to choose. Drug store is wide open down there in Cajun country!

Louisiana State Racing Rule 1505:
The nonsteroidal, anti-inflammatory medications designated below may be used in training but may not be administered within 24 hours of a race in which a horse is entered: Phenylbutazone, Oxyphenylbutazone.

Louisiana State Racing Rule 1509:
Permitted Medication – Furosemide by single intravenous injection not less than 150 mcg and not exceed 500 mcg.
a. Approved adjunct, bleeder medications: Ethacrynic Acid, Bumetandine, Estrogen, Ergonovine, Aminno Caproic Acid, Carbazochrome.

So horse goes to the post with L + B/O(?) + E / B / E / E / A / C

Do handicappers have a right to know if it is B or O and what about the SIX OTHER DRUGS? I’ve never seen those listed in the form. How many handicappers even know about the use of the additional drugs?

L + B/O(?) + Ethacrynic Acid - Is a potent diuretic (as if Lasix wasn’t enough).
L + B/O(?) + Bumetanide - Is a loop diuretic with a rapid onset and short duration of action.
L + B/O(?) + Estrogen - (This is an interesting one, lots of stuff on this one!)
L + B/O(?) + Ergonovine - Used for the prevention and control of postpartum hemorrhage.
L + B/O(?) + Amino Caproic Acid - Useful in enhancing hemostasis when fibrinolysis contributes to bleeding.
L + B/O(?) + Carbazochrome - Anti hemorrhagic or hemostatic agent. (Wikipedia)

Down right shame all these drugs.


All drug data found here unless otherwise noted. http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/about.cfm?CFID=107387732&CFTOKEN=e6b0b64601d3f484-0E7FB45B-9A1F-F559-AE1817AFE9D46B37&jsessionid=8430ea9dfa9d697f62534c527d352580615c

I do hope the remaining states take their time in adopting the RMTC rules so all your adjunct bleeder medication research won't be wasted immediately. Reason being, all of these adjunct bleeder meds you're talking about will no longer be allowed on race day. The only bleeder med that will remain is Lasix. More important then trying to distinguish which bleeder med will be used to attempt to prevent a bleeding episode....is that when you see the L designation for lasix, or LA...which you may not know means Lasix and Adjunct bleeder medication....you are aware that all these meds are used to prevent EIPH. In some race jurisdictions, they are clumped under the L code according to their race rules. In other jurisdictions it is designated LA. What matters is that all these drugs are used to prevent EIPH, so what is the point of knowing which one is being used? Making an argument over the various bleeder meds received is meaningless as they all are used to attain the same result...to stop a horse from bleeding. For your information all these adjunct bleeder meds have been used since before lasix was allowed....but are detrimental to a horses health. For this reason the RMTC model rule banning the race-day use of all adjunct bleeder medications is being adopted. This reform has been adopted by at least 22 states currently, which have either implemented or in the process of implementing this reform, while awaiting state red tape for rule changes. TJ

[Whirlaway]

More important then trying to distinguish which bleeder med will be used to attempt to prevent a bleeding episode....is that when you see the L designation for lasix, or LA...which you may not know means Lasix and Adjunct bleeder medication.

It is critical that bettors know which drug the horse is getting because each drug has its particular pharmacodynamics, or effect on the body. In the case of Louisiana, the trainer has six drugs to choose from.

Please provide a link to a current past performance that shows LA.

[TJ]

Bettors have a right to know what drugs are given to a horse, particularly if they are placing a bet on that horse.

~

In both the California and Louisiana posts, I made a mistake; NSAIDs administered outside of 24 hours are not considered a race day medication; however, if given shortly before the 24 hour cutoff, the drug still remains in the system. In the case of “bute,"

After i.v. injection, blood levels decline with an elimination half-life of 3-10 h. The plasma kinetics of phenylbutazone may be dose dependent, with the plasma half-life increasing as the drug dosage level increases. Plasma residues of the drug at 24 h after a single i.v. dose of 2 g/450 kg average about 0.9 microgram/ml, but considerable variation occurs. If dosing is repeated, the plasma residue accumulates to give mean residual blood levels of approximately 4.5 microgram/ml on Day 5 after 4 days of dosing. (T.Tobin)

The half-life of “bute” is 3-10 hours, but is dose dependent. A roughly 1000 pound horse given 2 grams of “bute” for four days will have 4.5 micrograms per milliliter in plasma on day five. The 4.5 mcg/ml is below the Louisiana threshold - horse is plenty juiced but remains “legal.”

That’s the point, these horses are training and racing on countless drugs, no one knows about it. Louisiana is a fine example, horses are racing on Ethacrynic Acid, Bumetandine, Estrogen, Ergonovine, Aminno Caproic Acid, Carbazochrome and that information isn’t disclosed, racing public doesn’t have a clue.

Down right shame all of these drugs.

Everyone knows what drugs a horses is racing on, as long as it is a legal drug. Every horse that races is running on the listed allowable meds shown in their PP's or the overnight (Lasix, Bute or, for the remaining time Adjunct Bleeder meds), according to the rules of racing in that jurisdiction. If any of these horses are over the legal amount, or if they were administered the drug inside 24 hours, it will show in their blood or urine test and they will be DQ'd. Considering the gambler....if the horse they bet on wins the race because the horse had an illegal amount of said drug in his system...they just got over and will still keep their gambling winnings....the trainer and owner will lose out. TJ

[TJ]

Please provide a link to a current past performance that shows LA.

The fact you aren't aware of the A designation speaks volumes. I will provide this link for your education, since it has been in pp's and official entry overnights for as many years that adjunct bleeder meds have been used legally. Bettors are not sophisticated enough to know the difference between drugs that serve the same purpose. Just as bute is the only listed drug...there are other pain releivers used as well. The bottom line is, we know once we see B, the horse is given a pain reliever, just as when we see L the horse is given a drug to limit EIPH. What was used makes no difference unless you've done a study on and hold a degree in medications relating to their efficacy in equines. If you do you would be better suited to getting a job as a pharmacist and give up on racing and gambling. Most likely a better financial outlook will be in the offing . TJ
http://www.equibase.com/newfan/codes.cfm

[Whirlaway]

Here is a link to a few hundred, maybe a thousand past performances. Please indicate one past performance with the designation LA.

http://horseracing.about.com/od/racedayinfo/a/aafree-

Bettors have a right to know what drugs are given to a horse, particularly if they are placing a bet on that horse.

~

In both the California and Louisiana posts, I made a mistake; NSAIDs administered outside of 24 hours are not considered a race day medication; however, if given shortly before the 24 hour cutoff, the drug still remains in the system. In the case of “bute,"

After i.v. injection, blood levels decline with an elimination half-life of 3-10 h. The plasma kinetics of phenylbutazone may be dose dependent, with the plasma half-life increasing as the drug dosage level increases. Plasma residues of the drug at 24 h after a single i.v. dose of 2 g/450 kg average about 0.9 microgram/ml, but considerable variation occurs. If dosing is repeated, the plasma residue accumulates to give mean residual blood levels of approximately 4.5 microgram/ml on Day 5 after 4 days of dosing. (T.Tobin)

The half-life of “bute” is 3-10 hours, but is dose dependent. A roughly 1000 pound horse given 2 grams of “bute” for four days will have 4.5 micrograms per milliliter in plasma on day five. The 4.5 mcg/ml is below the Louisiana threshold - horse is plenty juiced but remains “legal.”

That’s the point, these horses are training and racing on countless drugs, no one knows about it. Louisiana is a fine example, horses are racing on Ethacrynic Acid, Bumetandine, Estrogen, Ergonovine, Aminno Caproic Acid, Carbazochrome and that information isn’t disclosed, racing public doesn’t have a clue.

Down right shame all of these drugs.

[TJ]

Here is a link to a few hundred, maybe a thousand past performances. Please indicate one past performance with the designation LA.

http://horseracing.about.com/od/raceday ... ee-pps.htm

~



Bettors have a right to know what drugs are given to a horse, particularly if they are placing a bet on that horse.

~

In both the California and Louisiana posts, I made a mistake; NSAIDs administered outside of 24 hours are not considered a race day medication; however, if given shortly before the 24 hour cutoff, the drug still remains in the system. In the case of “bute,"

After i.v. injection, blood levels decline with an elimination half-life of 3-10 h. The plasma kinetics of phenylbutazone may be dose dependent, with the plasma half-life increasing as the drug dosage level increases. Plasma residues of the drug at 24 h after a single i.v. dose of 2 g/450 kg average about 0.9 microgram/ml, but considerable variation occurs. If dosing is repeated, the plasma residue accumulates to give mean residual blood levels of approximately 4.5 microgram/ml on Day 5 after 4 days of dosing. (T.Tobin)

The half-life of “bute” is 3-10 hours, but is dose dependent. A roughly 1000 pound horse given 2 grams of “bute” for four days will have 4.5 micrograms per milliliter in plasma on day five. The 4.5 mcg/ml is below the Louisiana threshold - horse is plenty juiced but remains “legal.”

That’s the point, these horses are training and racing on countless drugs, no one knows about it. Louisiana is a fine example, horses are racing on Ethacrynic Acid, Bumetandine, Estrogen, Ergonovine, Aminno Caproic Acid, Carbazochrome and that information isn’t disclosed, racing public doesn’t have a clue.

Down right shame all of these drugs.

OK now you're pissing me off with your comment above...[/b] I all ready showed you the link you asked for with the A designation I will copy and paste it from the link I provided for you for all to see. The fact we see less of the LA designation is because the rule I stated that adjunct bleeder meds are clumped under L in some racing jurisdictions or that the elimination of Adjunct Bleeder meds have been ongoing since 2011....So less adjunct bleeders meds are used on race day. TJ
Medication Definitions
B Bute
L Lasix
A Adjunct Medication
C 1st Time Bute
M 1st Time Lasix

[TJ]

In addition to the Equibase definitions I supplied for you. This is from the Daily Racing Form, which has been around long before Equibase. Scroll down to page 18 of 24. You will find the same codes, with the A designation for Adjunct Bleeder Medication. It is reprinted for you below. TJ
Starter Record
Medication
Code Description
A Adjunct Bleeder Medication
B Bute
C First Time Bute
L Lasix
M First Time Lasix
http://www1.drf.com/misc/charts/textcha ... ptions.pdf

[ageecee]

[quote="Whirlaway"][quote="TJ"]More important then trying to distinguish which bleeder med will be used to attempt to prevent a bleeding episode....is that when you see the L designation for lasix, or LA...which you may not know means Lasix and Adjunct bleeder medication.[/quote]

It is critical that bettors know which drug the horse is getting because each drug has its particular pharmacodynamics, or effect on the body. In the case of Louisiana, the trainer has six drugs to choose from.

Please provide a link to a current past performance that shows[b] LA[/b].[/quote]





Explain to me how it is critical for bettors to know which drugs horses are getting? Will that affect your handicapping? I seriously doubt it. You are making urself look dumber and dumber.