Lava Man-2nd GIW For Slew City Slew

[llbean]

Lava Man became the first GIW for his sire Slew City Slew by winning the Hollywood Gold Cup by a record margin. Very interestingly, he constitutes the FOURTH GIW combining Seattle Slew and the Herbager mare The Garden Club, the others being Horse Of The Year Mineshaft, his full sister Personal Ensign (GI) and Ruffian Handicaps (GI) Winner Tomisues Delight, and the Alabama Stakes (GI) Winner Runup The Colors.

Lava Man may actually be the most important from the standpoint of theory as his cross of The Garden Club comes through easily the weakest source and yet it still worked (also, Lava Man is the first one with this cross where the Seattle Slew didn't come through his son AP Indy).

Of course The Garden Club goes back to So Chic, a full sister of Glamour, the dam Seattle Slew's damsire's Poker's. Also, So Chic and Glamour's dam was none other than Striking, the BOTY Full Sister of the Great Champion 3YO Filly/HOY Busher, the dam of Seattle Slew's 2nd damsire Jet Action.

My feeling is that in the light of what Lava Man has added to our knowledge of the Seattle Slew/The Garden Club cross, said cross may prove of profound importance to the future of La Trioenne as a meaningful force in pedigrees.

I must confess I was a little surprised to see a GIW horse crossing Seattle Slew through a source other than AP Indy with a source of The Garden Club other the her very strong daughter Up The Flagpole given that the highly interesting relationship between Up The Flagpole and Lassie Dear is undoubtedly playing a significant role in the success of Mineshaft, et al.

Maybe I underestimated La Trioenne a little (and it's not like the time was poor for Lava Man by any means, though the field was weak by my lights).

Still it is, as ever always, important to "Consider The Source".

-llbean

[horsenuts]

Lava Man became the first GIW for his sire Slew City Slew by winning the Hollywood Gold Cup by a record margin. Very interestingly, he constitutes the FOURTH GIW combining Seattle Slew and the Herbager mare The Garden Club, the others being Horse Of The Year Mineshaft, his full sister Personal Ensign (GI) and Ruffian Handicaps (GI) Winner Tomisues Delight, and the Alabama Stakes (GI) Winner Runup The Colors.

Lava Man may actually be the most important from the standpoint of theory as his cross of The Garden Club comes through easily the weakest source and yet it still worked (also, Lava Man is the first one with this cross where the Seattle Slew didn't come through his son AP Indy).

Of course The Garden Club goes back to So Chic, a full sister of Glamour, the dam Seattle Slew's damsire's Poker's. Also, So Chic and Glamour's dam was none other than Striking, the BOTY Full Sister of the Great Champion 3YO Filly/HOY Busher, the dam of Seattle Slew's 2nd damsire Jet Action.

My feeling is that in the light of what Lava Man has added to our knowledge of the Seattle Slew/The Garden Club cross, said cross may prove of profound importance to the future of La Trioenne as a meaningful force in pedigrees.

I must confess I was a little surprised to see a GIW horse crossing Seattle Slew through a source other than AP Indy with a source of The Garden Club other the her very strong daughter Up The Flagpole given that the highly interesting relationship between Up The Flagpole and Lassie Dear is undoubtedly playing a significant role in the success of Mineshaft, et al.

Maybe I underestimated La Trioenne a little (and it's not like the time was poor for Lava Man by any means, though the field was weak by my lights).

Still it is, as ever always, important to "Consider The Source".

-llbean

Yes, and both the Slew City Slew GI winners this year(Lava Man & Sis City) were claimed for $50,000 less than a year ago. Would either of these horses have won a Graded Stakes race much less a Grade I with there old connections? I say no.

In today's racing world whenever selecting stallions to breed to I always consider who the trainer was of said horse. Many horses "overperform" for certain trainers just as many horses "underperform" for others. And why I don't put that much stock into what a horse does or doesn't do on the track.

[HR LLC]

I agree with Horsenuts, a lot of talented horses end up in the wrong hands. There are to many trainers that passed the trainers test and not enough horsemen.

[elviswastheking]

I think you guys are off base on the Sis City deal. Steve Asmussen, and that whole family are EXCELLENT horsemen and women. They also employ exceptional people. They handle some of the finest horses in the world, not just the nation, down in Laredo.

[LSB]

In today's racing world whenever selecting stallions to breed to I always consider who the trainer was of said horse. Many horses "overperform" for certain trainers just as many horses "underperform" for others. And why I don't put that much stock into what a horse does or doesn't do on the track.

I can certainly see taking the horse's trainer into consideration when looking at stallions...but not putting stock into what a horse does on the track? That just baffles me.

[horsenuts]

In today's racing world whenever selecting stallions to breed to I always consider who the trainer was of said horse. Many horses "overperform" for certain trainers just as many horses "underperform" for others. And why I don't put that much stock into what a horse does or doesn't do on the track.

I can certainly see taking the horse's trainer into consideration when looking at stallions...but not putting stock into what a horse does on the track? That just baffles me.

What a horse does on the track is relevant.. BUT many good stallions over the years never performed near as well on the racetrack as their offspring did... and of course much moreso on the other end of the specter where many great runners were flops as stallions.

Horses that "turn-around" from low-level ranks to rise to greatness i.e Seabiscuit among others rarely go on to be very successful stallions. Why? IMO certain trainers were able to get everything out of said horse.. whether by legal or illegal means is irrelevant when it comes to finding a good stallion prospect. Were the horse(s) really that good or was it the trainer who got every ounce out of said horse? And of course some horses just simply get "good" for a period of time.

I'm usually leary of modern day horses that were basically claiming to allowance level type horses or minor stake horses that suddenly rise up and begin to compete and even win Graded races under a new trainer. Of course many of these horses are really promoted as stud prospects once they head to the breeding shed... but as I've said I'm very leary of such horses..... but that's just me.