What a Song........... What a disgrace!!!
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wilf
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What a Song........... What a disgrace!!!
All I needed to see was the picture of What a Song winning wearing an outside scoop blinker, with the bit yanked through his mouth and a look of horror in his left eye to see that has been truly "Baffertized" That poor little guy was really uncomfortable that day and obviously whatever was wrong with him went unaddressed, now I read all this mush from the very people that let him down just when he needed them, give me a break!!!!!! Just lately Jerry Bailey had the sense to scratch a high profile horse Noble Causeway just before they went into the gate for a stakes race. The connections pressed on and ran him soon after in an easier race when he was eased and fortunately has now been given a chance to rest and recuperate. In this game horses will try to speak to you time after time and its our job to listen, its amazing how many "horsepeople" will not.
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louis finochio
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wilf said:
Wilf...I think we are all in agreement that the loss of this young colt is a big loss to the world of TB racing. Respectfully however, I think your commentary on the "Bloodhorse" photo is mistaken. I see that he is wearing blinkers with outside scoop....for whatever reasons I do not pretend to know. However as to the "bit yanked through his mouth"...comment you made, I think you may be wrong: he actually appears to have been let up on and the reins are quite slack in the jocks hands, as if this photo was taken immediately AFTER he has crossed the finish line, not at the finish. Others have commented and documented in the "General" discussion area that this colt was simply wall-eyed on his left as opposed to having a "look of horror" from racing stress as you have concluded.
Having said that I would agree that the pressure of constant hard works and high level racing on the better 2YOs makes it a question of 'only the strong and the lucky' surviving. Then you read about Man O'War and Seabiscuit - the old "iron horses' of the not too distant past and their careers as 2YOs and wonder what was different then as opposed to now: we certainly have a much better grasp of nutrition as it relates to physical development and exercise fitness, a better grasp of how exercise regimens impact and even stimulate the remodeling of bone to handle increased stress....while we have so much bred for speed that we no longer - perhaps - have as substantively boned an animal as in the past....??? A thought: Favorite Trick was an amazingly fit and tough 2YO racehorse of recent vintage..but he didn't mature as a 3YO into his promise as Champion 2YO and HOTY and - so far - has failed to produce anything close to his own brilliance and precocity in his Tb offspring....yet I wonder if his soundness under the stress of training/racing 2YOs might not be his real gift to the TB? Perhaps his daughters should be given consideration if they have the ability to pass this on when bred to one of our more fragile but fantasticly fast young stallions/sires? My guess is that most of his daughters are not highly regarded as breeding prospects - unless they bring "back class" in their female families to the breeding shed as they will be judged by their sire's failure to peform at 3 and as a sire of superior runners. Yet one thing I see in almost every F.T. offspring is a very muscular body type with good to excellent bone of the lower leg, most slightly over but never back at the knees. In other words great structural underpinnings for the racehorse. Could we as breeders with such a focus on near term performance in the pedigree be giving up/blind to possiblities that would be good for the breed - and hence for racing - in our difficult search for a return on investment? It's tough balance to strike when you're making those breeding decisions and putting your money and hard work on the line in a venture that's at least 4 years out from being "tested"....
This issue of soundness and the balancing of the training/racing of 2YOs within their individual developmental timeframe is I think the single most pressing issue of our times as breeders, racing enthusiasts of all stripes. And it has to be the the most challenging aspect of being a trainer. I know as an owner that I've worked with my trainer to do everything possible to make sure a 2YO filly was fit to race after grabbing her quarter in one start and coming up very sore on it afterwards: X-rays, daily examinations of her stride and of the suspect foot, a week of stallrest with handwalking only, followed by 2 weeks on the hotwalker and nothing more than easy jogs around the track, always checking for that offstep, no matter how slight or the faintest bit of heat or fill that would indicate something we couldn't see in the X-rays was there. Raced her again better than a month later and she would dig in to challenge then let up on the gas, dig in again only to let up again and the next morning has just the slightest bit of heat in that same foot, same spot again. It makes you sick to think you've run her sore, yet I'm at a loss as to what else you could do. Would 2 months off have done the trick or more? OR as a soft tissue injury would it be like some I've incurred as a rider and as an amature gymnist, tennis player and sailor: sometimes you can expect a bit of soreness/heat in that previously injured area once you are ready to compete/stress it again - especially if you've lost some degree of your former fitness level in that 'favored' portion of your body. It's part of the tissue remodeling that goes with healing and an ahtlete pushing themself to the limits. Admittedly I and my trainer end up making decisions for the filly she cannot voice but every aspect of her demeanor and energy was positive for a return to the track after the month+ of downtime: she was practically kicking the stall walls down, nipping at everybody and everything in play and went to the track with her ears pricked and eager to be let go. It lines up right alongside the issue of druges in racehorses - where do we draw the line between drugs that might actually help horses feel and move better and those that mask their symptoms or pain to the betting public, to the jockeys that ride them and sometimes to their own detriment, even those that boost their perromances. I don't think demonizing Bob Baffert is the way to address this issue.....he has also successfully trained some very late to develope SWs who have gone on to rather long careers and I think of no incentive that he has to ignor or short change a horse of it's proper care. It's funny that in one thread on this forum some of us can criticize the Kentucky Derby, Preakness and almost Belmont winner "Real Quiet" for his MANY conformational shortcomings but not give any credit to the trainer that managed his career....and then in the next thread blame the unfortunate demise of this very promising young colt on that same trainer.
I think it is a crying shame that WHAT A SONG is no longer with us.....in a short life time and career he gave us a lot to enjoy and look forward to and made many fans, for himself and for racing. I am reminded of an old phrase I have long heard among horseman: "First, you always take care of your horse. IF you do that he will take care of you."
I think it is time that this industry/sport take that simple mantra to heart and make it the first part of any mission statement: FIRST TAKE CARE OF THE HORSE.
All I needed to see was the picture of What a Song winning wearing an outside scoop blinker, with the bit yanked through his mouth and a look of horror in his left eye to see that has been truly "Baffertized" That poor little guy was really uncomfortable that day and obviously whatever was wrong with him went unaddressed,
Wilf...I think we are all in agreement that the loss of this young colt is a big loss to the world of TB racing. Respectfully however, I think your commentary on the "Bloodhorse" photo is mistaken. I see that he is wearing blinkers with outside scoop....for whatever reasons I do not pretend to know. However as to the "bit yanked through his mouth"...comment you made, I think you may be wrong: he actually appears to have been let up on and the reins are quite slack in the jocks hands, as if this photo was taken immediately AFTER he has crossed the finish line, not at the finish. Others have commented and documented in the "General" discussion area that this colt was simply wall-eyed on his left as opposed to having a "look of horror" from racing stress as you have concluded.
Having said that I would agree that the pressure of constant hard works and high level racing on the better 2YOs makes it a question of 'only the strong and the lucky' surviving. Then you read about Man O'War and Seabiscuit - the old "iron horses' of the not too distant past and their careers as 2YOs and wonder what was different then as opposed to now: we certainly have a much better grasp of nutrition as it relates to physical development and exercise fitness, a better grasp of how exercise regimens impact and even stimulate the remodeling of bone to handle increased stress....while we have so much bred for speed that we no longer - perhaps - have as substantively boned an animal as in the past....??? A thought: Favorite Trick was an amazingly fit and tough 2YO racehorse of recent vintage..but he didn't mature as a 3YO into his promise as Champion 2YO and HOTY and - so far - has failed to produce anything close to his own brilliance and precocity in his Tb offspring....yet I wonder if his soundness under the stress of training/racing 2YOs might not be his real gift to the TB? Perhaps his daughters should be given consideration if they have the ability to pass this on when bred to one of our more fragile but fantasticly fast young stallions/sires? My guess is that most of his daughters are not highly regarded as breeding prospects - unless they bring "back class" in their female families to the breeding shed as they will be judged by their sire's failure to peform at 3 and as a sire of superior runners. Yet one thing I see in almost every F.T. offspring is a very muscular body type with good to excellent bone of the lower leg, most slightly over but never back at the knees. In other words great structural underpinnings for the racehorse. Could we as breeders with such a focus on near term performance in the pedigree be giving up/blind to possiblities that would be good for the breed - and hence for racing - in our difficult search for a return on investment? It's tough balance to strike when you're making those breeding decisions and putting your money and hard work on the line in a venture that's at least 4 years out from being "tested"....
This issue of soundness and the balancing of the training/racing of 2YOs within their individual developmental timeframe is I think the single most pressing issue of our times as breeders, racing enthusiasts of all stripes. And it has to be the the most challenging aspect of being a trainer. I know as an owner that I've worked with my trainer to do everything possible to make sure a 2YO filly was fit to race after grabbing her quarter in one start and coming up very sore on it afterwards: X-rays, daily examinations of her stride and of the suspect foot, a week of stallrest with handwalking only, followed by 2 weeks on the hotwalker and nothing more than easy jogs around the track, always checking for that offstep, no matter how slight or the faintest bit of heat or fill that would indicate something we couldn't see in the X-rays was there. Raced her again better than a month later and she would dig in to challenge then let up on the gas, dig in again only to let up again and the next morning has just the slightest bit of heat in that same foot, same spot again. It makes you sick to think you've run her sore, yet I'm at a loss as to what else you could do. Would 2 months off have done the trick or more? OR as a soft tissue injury would it be like some I've incurred as a rider and as an amature gymnist, tennis player and sailor: sometimes you can expect a bit of soreness/heat in that previously injured area once you are ready to compete/stress it again - especially if you've lost some degree of your former fitness level in that 'favored' portion of your body. It's part of the tissue remodeling that goes with healing and an ahtlete pushing themself to the limits. Admittedly I and my trainer end up making decisions for the filly she cannot voice but every aspect of her demeanor and energy was positive for a return to the track after the month+ of downtime: she was practically kicking the stall walls down, nipping at everybody and everything in play and went to the track with her ears pricked and eager to be let go. It lines up right alongside the issue of druges in racehorses - where do we draw the line between drugs that might actually help horses feel and move better and those that mask their symptoms or pain to the betting public, to the jockeys that ride them and sometimes to their own detriment, even those that boost their perromances. I don't think demonizing Bob Baffert is the way to address this issue.....he has also successfully trained some very late to develope SWs who have gone on to rather long careers and I think of no incentive that he has to ignor or short change a horse of it's proper care. It's funny that in one thread on this forum some of us can criticize the Kentucky Derby, Preakness and almost Belmont winner "Real Quiet" for his MANY conformational shortcomings but not give any credit to the trainer that managed his career....and then in the next thread blame the unfortunate demise of this very promising young colt on that same trainer.
I think it is a crying shame that WHAT A SONG is no longer with us.....in a short life time and career he gave us a lot to enjoy and look forward to and made many fans, for himself and for racing. I am reminded of an old phrase I have long heard among horseman: "First, you always take care of your horse. IF you do that he will take care of you."
I think it is time that this industry/sport take that simple mantra to heart and make it the first part of any mission statement: FIRST TAKE CARE OF THE HORSE.
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louis finochio
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The TB trainers of today are training TB that have weak underpining.
When one of these TB goes down from an injury, everyone is quick to blame the trainer. The breeder has the knowledge to breed soundness into these weak individuals. The problem is if the breeder ads soundness into the matings via stamina those individuals will not break the sound barrier in the sales previews.
So were back to square one and the breeder will make his matings to speed and unsoundness will follow.
Whats the answer to this dilemma? If the buyers refuse to purchase those speed oriented unsound TB this will change the breeding patterns of those breeders that are selling those fast but unsound TB.
When one of these TB goes down from an injury, everyone is quick to blame the trainer. The breeder has the knowledge to breed soundness into these weak individuals. The problem is if the breeder ads soundness into the matings via stamina those individuals will not break the sound barrier in the sales previews.
So were back to square one and the breeder will make his matings to speed and unsoundness will follow.
Whats the answer to this dilemma? If the buyers refuse to purchase those speed oriented unsound TB this will change the breeding patterns of those breeders that are selling those fast but unsound TB.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
freddymo wrote:Louis do not equate soundness with stamina they have nothing to do with one another. Unbridled was able to pass stamina and Unsoundness on with the best of them.
And THIS particular branch of Unbridled (unbridled's Song/Songandaprayer/What A Song) should all be culled and/or shot along with the idiots breeding to it.
If you couldn't look at WAS in his first race and KNOW he was not likely to live to see his 3rd birthday, you probably shouldn't be in the business. I remember getting a call from a friend of mine the day he broke his maiden (I watched it on TV, she was there) and the FIRST thing she said was "Did you see Baffert's latest corpse".
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Tucumcari
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[quote="louis finochio"]The TB trainers of today are training TB that have weak underpining.
When one of these TB goes down from an injury, everyone is quick to blame the trainer.
Louis, that colt had a broken leg before he ever left the barn.He is FULLY accountable for and to blame for the demise of this potentially really good colt. Baffert has the highest number of sore horses per capita of any trainer on the grounds.
He ought to be ashamed and reaccess his program, but will he...? Of course not. I personally could not do what he and his exercise riders do! I couldn't fathom turing %10 of his horses loose underneath me. He's a heartless man. No compasion for the amimal at all! Shame on him.
When one of these TB goes down from an injury, everyone is quick to blame the trainer.
Louis, that colt had a broken leg before he ever left the barn.He is FULLY accountable for and to blame for the demise of this potentially really good colt. Baffert has the highest number of sore horses per capita of any trainer on the grounds.
He ought to be ashamed and reaccess his program, but will he...? Of course not. I personally could not do what he and his exercise riders do! I couldn't fathom turing %10 of his horses loose underneath me. He's a heartless man. No compasion for the amimal at all! Shame on him.
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louis finochio
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Baffert doesnt have a lot of sore TB. When I watch them walk on the toe ring I havent seen any that I can remember that were sore.
You dont train for the best owners in the industry and get the results Baffert does with sore TB.
His help are professional and responsible individuals. I know them all personally as they have been my customers for 20 years plus.
You dont train for the best owners in the industry and get the results Baffert does with sore TB.
His help are professional and responsible individuals. I know them all personally as they have been my customers for 20 years plus.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
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Tucumcari
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louis finochio wrote:Baffert doesnt have a lot of sore TB. When I watch them walk on the toe ring I havent seen any that I can remember that were sore.
You dont train for the best owners in the industry and get the results Baffert does with sore TB.
His help are professional and responsible individuals. I know them all personally as they have been my customers for 20 years plus.
Sad to say it Louis, but you must not be adept at discerning between the sore and the REALLY sore. Cause I too see them every day and I am appalled!
Clearly as Bob does it, you can train for some of the best owners in the sport and train some seriously sore horses with moderate % results. VERY possible. Imagine what would happen if he had a barn full of $4000 horses.
I'm sure they are reliable good help, that shows up every day.
Good for you. Open your eyes.
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roving boy
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