Boy, the preps this weekend were weird and aside from Lawyer Ron proving legit the other favorites didn't look so hot.
Private Vow probably needed the race, but he didn't look good at all.
Achilles of Troy was vanned off. Keyed Entry looked like he wanted no part of a longer race. Ditto for the longshot winner of the Gotham.
Bluegrass Cat had the race to win and he couldn't get it done as Bailey said, "He was closer at the 3/8's pole than he was at the finish and that's not the way you want a Derby horse to go."
Bob and John didn't really lose anything in defeat, but he didn't impress so much, and what the heck are we supposed to think of A.P. Warrior. Is he finally putting it together or will he revert to his old form?
Weird bunch of preps for sure. It will be interesting to see how Brother Derek and Barbaro do in the weeks ahead. Anybody got a horse that might step out of the shadows? Perhaps Steppenwolfer puts it all together?
Weekend offers up more Questions than Answers?
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Weekend offers up more Questions than Answers?
I don't have low self-esteem. I have low esteem for everyone else. ~ Daria
Re: Weekend offers up more Questions than Answers?
austique wrote: Keyed Entry looked like he wanted no part of a longer race.
Dunno how you got that. He wasn't going backward at the end and he was a pretty close 2nd. Had he been sent to the front here, I bet he'd have won it, and he did dig in there at the last. A fast horse with grit who tried to rate. I wouldn't toss him yet unless he falls in the next race. That said I wouldn't say he's my fave out there but I think it's unfair to talk down on him. I figure First Samarai's last was more of a downer than this colt's if you're talking distance limitations.
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana"
I'd agree with you that he was closing, but he was closing on a dying front runner who had never been two turns or faced stakes company and couldn't get it done. He also to me didn't appear to be accelerating as much as the other horse was just coming back to him. I think he's live if the Gotham comes up really weak, but I wouldn't count on him at Churchill.
I don't have low self-esteem. I have low esteem for everyone else. ~ Daria
Unless Like Now finds some more gas in the tank, I dont see how he can get 10 furlongs. He looked like he had the blind staggers the last few yards.
Keyed entry was trying to get at Like Now, but he looked like he was running on empty too.
My opinion; If any of the horses in the Gotham want to be at Churchill Downs on the 1st Saturday of May, they're going to have to buy a ticket.
Now Lawyer Ron looked impressive in winning the Rebel. Just so-so fractions and he blew right past the front runners. Then again, just Steppenwolfer and Private Vow was all he had to beat.
Bummed that Bob and John didn't do better in the San Felipe. He is my sentimental choice as he comes from one of my favorite female familes.
A.P. Warrior did look pretty good in going wide, then having to fight off an inside rally by Point Determined.
Anyway, As Austique posted. Nothing really settled by todays races.
Regards, Shergar
Keyed entry was trying to get at Like Now, but he looked like he was running on empty too.
My opinion; If any of the horses in the Gotham want to be at Churchill Downs on the 1st Saturday of May, they're going to have to buy a ticket.
Now Lawyer Ron looked impressive in winning the Rebel. Just so-so fractions and he blew right past the front runners. Then again, just Steppenwolfer and Private Vow was all he had to beat.
Bummed that Bob and John didn't do better in the San Felipe. He is my sentimental choice as he comes from one of my favorite female familes.
A.P. Warrior did look pretty good in going wide, then having to fight off an inside rally by Point Determined.
Anyway, As Austique posted. Nothing really settled by todays races.
Regards, Shergar
Does anybody have the dread that this year's Derby might end up like the last one? I really want a horse I suspected could win the Derby actually win the Derby. I'd like to see'em coming even if it's with high powered binoculars. I don't think that's wrong to want.
I liked the San Felipe of the 4 today just in terms of watching. Wonder if it's residual bitterness because baseball pre-empted the other 3 and they were shown tape-delay quickly. I don't think so but who knows. I just thought the horses were interesting.
Ok random question. Is there any horse you just find personally annoying or unlikable no matter how well he might've been running? I know that's kind of an odd thing to ask but humor me. It can be cuz you just can't stand seeing that particular trainer win, the name of the horse, the breeding somehow (even though it's not distance-limiting--e.g. you never did like a certain stallion as a broodmare sire no matter what race his grandkids are in, etc), the jockey bugs you, the horse somehow gets on your nerves, whatever...
I liked the San Felipe of the 4 today just in terms of watching. Wonder if it's residual bitterness because baseball pre-empted the other 3 and they were shown tape-delay quickly. I don't think so but who knows. I just thought the horses were interesting.
Ok random question. Is there any horse you just find personally annoying or unlikable no matter how well he might've been running? I know that's kind of an odd thing to ask but humor me. It can be cuz you just can't stand seeing that particular trainer win, the name of the horse, the breeding somehow (even though it's not distance-limiting--e.g. you never did like a certain stallion as a broodmare sire no matter what race his grandkids are in, etc), the jockey bugs you, the horse somehow gets on your nerves, whatever...
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana"
Heidilady wrote:Ok random question. Is there any horse you just find personally annoying or unlikable no matter how well he might've been running?
Anything Frankel the Sleazy Pimp is connected to. I think the year Papa Mandella had his 4 BC winners, Frankel went goose egg for 8 starters. Happiest day of my life.
About the only thing I can think of that would make me hate a horse more would be if it were somehow connected to Der Fuhrer Shrub, Jr.
I don't know about Like Now, but Keyed Entry probably needed the race -- he'd been off for six weeks. I think I'll wait until after the Wood before I pass judgment on how he'll get a longer trip.
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis
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LaTroienne
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Heidilady wrote:Ok random question. Is there any horse you just find personally annoying or unlikable no matter how well he might've been running?..
Anything FuPeg.
Now here's a question (there was a bit of a discussion on another board).. why doesn't anyone like Laity? He prevailed twice at 8.5f in stakes, the Cradle and the John Battaglia.. you might not be high on Pulpit but look at his damline.
But what about that longshot Pair of Kings that came from the clouds and missed smoking him by a nose?
I suggest that it is impossible to predict which 3-year old colt will "bloom" on Derby day.. as tough as it is now to predict which rose bush will be blooming. There are an awful lot of possibilities in the next 48 days or so... luck, training, racing, injuries, connections, decisions, qualifying..and then there is weather, track conditions, etc. etc. etc.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
madelyn wrote:Now here's a question (there was a bit of a discussion on another board).. why doesn't anyone like Laity? He prevailed twice at 8.5f in stakes, the Cradle and the John Battaglia.. you might not be high on Pulpit but look at his damline.
I suspect it has something to do with 3 factors: some people hate Pulpit, this horse was highly regarded as a colt and couldn't get it done at that time so people have residual dislike from that, and he's now a gelding which others just write off cause they don't like geldings on the TC trail.
Not to say I'm totally against him or for him or anything. That's just what occurred to me as to why some might actually have a negative opinion about him.
I have an unexplanable dislike of Lawyer Ron. I mean if I just look at the horse he looks lovely and watch his races and they're nice but that name's hideous. I've got at least two men I rabidly dislike named Ron and I can't shake it. I suppose that's it. Of course I'd like to see him face different horses besides Steppenwolfer and Red Raymond, heck, for variety's sake if nothing else. So I guess that's another reason.
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana"
QUOTE:
I didn't see it that way at all. I thought LIKE NOW was being held back harshly by his jock at the beginning of the race which he clearly wanted to run in wire to wire fashion. I saw him running quite rank til almost mid-backstretch - and 'fighting your jock' is always a waste of energy. That he finally 'semi=settled' going into the final turn, had contenders come up to challenge him twice, each time taking off to distance himself, yet still had the "stuff" to finish a winner was impressive to me, staggers or not. To my eyes - this early in the run up to the Derby he looked very talented and very "green" to me - but what the heck - he's only a "baby" 3YO and he's got a month and half to 'recover', think about his experience a bit, continuing to mature mentally and physically - hopefully - and he'll either be better for it or much worse next out. I think it will be interesting to see how he's managed and what he shows us next. I do think he left a lot of himself out on the track yesterday and needs some recovery time....not sure if the calendar and his connections/trainer's aspirations after yesterday's win will allow for that but I really kind of liked this one.
I kind of had the same read on BOB AND JOHN yesterday - though his level of race experience and maturity is light years ahead of LIKE NOW. Bob Baffert said beforehand that he was going to be taken back, experience getting some dirt in his face and "we'll see how he handles it". Looked like the jockey followed that formula to a "T". From what I saw BOB AND JOHN was fairly bothered by getting the dirt in his face, though willing enough to settle rather than needing to be on the lead. He dropped way back rather than pressing the pack - but he did answer the call when asked to advance and going wide he didn't stop or drop out, just hung a bit in a fiercely fought finish that had him swinging wide and running the longer race after experiencing the 'dirt in face' adversity that will surely be the lot of any serious Derby contender. Next out will tell if he's hit his limit of 3YO talent or was on the learning curve and has more to show us once he's digested yesterday's experience.
Unless Like Now finds some more gas in the tank, I dont see how he can get 10 furlongs. He looked like he had the blind staggers the last few yards.
I didn't see it that way at all. I thought LIKE NOW was being held back harshly by his jock at the beginning of the race which he clearly wanted to run in wire to wire fashion. I saw him running quite rank til almost mid-backstretch - and 'fighting your jock' is always a waste of energy. That he finally 'semi=settled' going into the final turn, had contenders come up to challenge him twice, each time taking off to distance himself, yet still had the "stuff" to finish a winner was impressive to me, staggers or not. To my eyes - this early in the run up to the Derby he looked very talented and very "green" to me - but what the heck - he's only a "baby" 3YO and he's got a month and half to 'recover', think about his experience a bit, continuing to mature mentally and physically - hopefully - and he'll either be better for it or much worse next out. I think it will be interesting to see how he's managed and what he shows us next. I do think he left a lot of himself out on the track yesterday and needs some recovery time....not sure if the calendar and his connections/trainer's aspirations after yesterday's win will allow for that but I really kind of liked this one.
I kind of had the same read on BOB AND JOHN yesterday - though his level of race experience and maturity is light years ahead of LIKE NOW. Bob Baffert said beforehand that he was going to be taken back, experience getting some dirt in his face and "we'll see how he handles it". Looked like the jockey followed that formula to a "T". From what I saw BOB AND JOHN was fairly bothered by getting the dirt in his face, though willing enough to settle rather than needing to be on the lead. He dropped way back rather than pressing the pack - but he did answer the call when asked to advance and going wide he didn't stop or drop out, just hung a bit in a fiercely fought finish that had him swinging wide and running the longer race after experiencing the 'dirt in face' adversity that will surely be the lot of any serious Derby contender. Next out will tell if he's hit his limit of 3YO talent or was on the learning curve and has more to show us once he's digested yesterday's experience.
Shergar wrote:
Anyway, As Austique posted. Nothing really settled by todays races.
Regards, Shergar
Can't quite agree here. Looks to me as if Point Determined is slowly but surely getting better. He's been inching up to second now. He may just prove that he's a bit of a late developing colt. If he would win the Derby, it would be similar to Giacomo who 'revenged' his sire who lost the Derby, and so did Point Given. Let's not forget that Point Given's sire, Thundergulch, didn't only win the Ky Derby but also the Belmont, solidifying somehow that Point Determined should be ready for the distance with a little more mileage.
Point Determined has a respectable record by now: 5 Starts: 2 - 2 - 1, $110,330
I really don't understand his dosage points with all the strong stallions in his pedigree. Dosage is DP = 3-7-10-0-0 (20) .
Bottom line, I think Point Determined deserves respect and attention.
What's he like as far as conformation is concerned? Anybody seen him?
SB
I think right now. I'm just skeptical of anything that ran this weekend with the exception of Lawyer Ron and my "he ain't flashy but he usually gets a check star" Steppenwolfer (who I'm cooling on).
Point Determined showed improvement, but I think the one horse that puts that whole race in a cloud for me is A.P. Warrior. Is he for real this time or was this another "Look at me I've got some talent, but I'm going to run like crap for a while now to drive my owners crazy" performance. Bob and John got a little too far back eve with the plan to get dirt in his face, so I think it will take the Santa Anita Derby to really shake out where everyone belongs. I think this year its going to take until the last step preps to see where everyone sort of shakes out. There have been a lot of highly touted colts I think don't really want to go much father than they've been so far. It'll be interesting thats for sure.
Aside: My brother trained a horse like that (brilliant every once and while and nothing the rest of the time) and as a joke he glued Alpo labels to his stall (it was actually my horse
). The horse did win his next out. 
Another Aside: Its a shame Hesanoldsalt hasn't shown much yet cause he is one fine looking colt, but then Zito's horses always look good.
Point Determined showed improvement, but I think the one horse that puts that whole race in a cloud for me is A.P. Warrior. Is he for real this time or was this another "Look at me I've got some talent, but I'm going to run like crap for a while now to drive my owners crazy" performance. Bob and John got a little too far back eve with the plan to get dirt in his face, so I think it will take the Santa Anita Derby to really shake out where everyone belongs. I think this year its going to take until the last step preps to see where everyone sort of shakes out. There have been a lot of highly touted colts I think don't really want to go much father than they've been so far. It'll be interesting thats for sure.
Aside: My brother trained a horse like that (brilliant every once and while and nothing the rest of the time) and as a joke he glued Alpo labels to his stall (it was actually my horse
). The horse did win his next out.
Another Aside: Its a shame Hesanoldsalt hasn't shown much yet cause he is one fine looking colt, but then Zito's horses always look good.
I don't have low self-esteem. I have low esteem for everyone else. ~ Daria
sb wrote:Bottom line, I think Point Determined deserves respect and attention.What's he like as far as conformation is concerned? Anybody seen him?
If he's like his sire, I've been told that's not exactly a stellar thing as far as conformation goes. Isn't Point of Impact supposed to be the spitting image? What does that say about his front end? I've never seen PG or offspring in person but I'm just going based on what I've heard. I could've totally heard wrong, in which case ignore everything I just said. I'm really hungry and my pizza isn't here yet so I'm getting a little punchy.
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana"