Pedigree Query

I've seen a few of em', none like this one.

At this point in time he has shown all the attributes of a Champion: class, athleticism, readiness, high early speed, a relaxed elastic stride, willingness, determination and a late turn of foot while never tiring - will his stamina, late drive and endurance be tested come the Kentucky Derby?

Impressive at the start, he drew clear first asking by 8 lengths at 53k; drew off handily by 16 lengths next out 75kOC; bobbled at the start in the GII Tampa Bay, still got the lead and wired em' in the sand in a hand ride; made a mockery of the field in the Wood. Never felt the whip, has done it all too easy, never tested - none could match his ability and I don't believe any of em' will. I've read a few articles about this one and Pletcher commented that he has done some pretty feakish things in the morning workouts. I don't think we've seen this horse really run . . . I'm thinkin' come the Derby Pletcher, Cordero and Velazquez will have Verrazano grind em' into the dirt ala Spend A Buck, Derby 85'.

Congratulations to Let's Go Stable and the Coolmore Group, they have a nice one in Verrazano. And congratulations to TJ for seein' and recognizin' a fine right thoroughbred.

Lookin' forward to the next three, hopin' he stays well and makes history.

Nothin' like the Derby Trail !

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/racinghub/archive/2012/01/11/angel-cordero-s-last-ride.aspx

From the person who thought Shanghai Bobby was the next sliced bread.

Verazzano will be put in his place in the Ky Derby.
I can't see him in the first 3.

Whirlaway wrote:I've seen a few of em', none like this one.

At this point in time he has shown all the attributes of a Champion: class, athleticism, readiness, high early speed, a relaxed elastic stride, willingness, determination and a late turn of foot while never tiring - will his stamina, late drive and endurance be tested come the Kentucky Derby?

Impressive at the start, he drew clear first asking by 8 lengths at 53k; drew off handily by 16 lengths next out 75kOC; bobbled at the start in the GII Tampa Bay, still got the lead and wired em' in the sand in a hand ride; made a mockery of the field in the Wood. Never felt the whip, has done it all too easy, never tested - none could match his ability and I don't believe any of em' will. I've read a few articles about this one and Pletcher commented that he has done some pretty feakish things in the morning workouts. I don't think we've seen this horse really run . . . I'm thinkin' come the Derby Pletcher, Cordero and Velazquez will have Verrazano grind em' into the dirt ala Spend A Buck, Derby 85'.

Congratulations to Let's Go Stable and the Coolmore Group, they have a nice one in Verrazano. And congratulations to TJ for seein' and recognizin' a fine right thoroughbred.

Lookin' forward to the next three, hopin' he stays well and makes history.

Nothin' like the Derby Trail !

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/racinghub/archive/2012/01/11/angel-cordero-s-last-ride.aspx

Hi Whirl,
I appreciate what you said, but it's almost embarrasing to take credit for recognizing his ability....we're talking about a horse Ray Charles could have seen is a good one:>) Verrazano is no slam dunk to win the Derby....let alone the TC, talk like that has no basis at this point. He is certainly more capable than Shaghai Bobby going a distance....but Verrazano is just as suspect as he was to go the mile and a quarter. Truth is, of all the 3YO's I've seen at Palm Meadows, who I thought were outstanding Derby prospects, (Funny Cide, Barbaro, Street Sense, Big Brown, Super Saver and Verrazano), the two Pletcher horses were the most vulnerable (Super Saver and Verrazano). In my opinion, Verrazano is the one most vulnerable to win the Derby because of his breeding. His sire never sired a runner to win at the 1 1/4 mile distance on dirt. I believe he gets his stamina from his dam's side....and that may not be enough. If the Derby was run on the turf....I'd say he'd be a slam dunk (Monade)...but the dirt could make it tough for him to get that last 1/4 with no water:>) As Dub said many times...we really haven't seen enough from him to tell what he will do at the distance come Derby day. He is the most vulnerable of those 3YO's I've been impressed by....yet he has a knack for overachieving. He is a special horse....but may not be as effective going the Derby distance. I think he will, but I also believe he will be stretching his limitations at that distance. I believe he will run his eyeballs out in the Derby, but if he gets beat I wouldn't be surprised....he has more against him then he has going for him between his breeding and the fact he never raced as a 2YO. If they aren't inherently able to go that distance, they hit an invisible wall at the 3/16ths pole. There was no doubt about Big Brown, Street Sense or Barbaro, they were proven before they got to CD. Verrazano is still a work in progress going into the Derby.....if he gets away with it, the Preakness should be easier....but the Belmont will be yet a new frontier for him. TJ

dublino wrote:From the person who thought Shanghai Bobby was the next sliced bread.

Verazzano will be put in his place in the Ky Derby.
I can't see him in the first 3.

Hi Dub,
Guess our post's crossed in cyber space. I did give you honorable mention concerning your opinion that Verrazano will be sucking wind in the Derby:>) TJ

Lol yeah right TJ you were out at bingo again.

Racing needs a Triple Crown winner but can't see Verrazano ever winning the Belmont.

Govenor Charlie
Revolutionary
Lines of Battle

They are my favs at the moment for the Ky Derby.

dublino wrote:Lol yeah right TJ you were out at bingo again.

Racing needs a Triple Crown winner but can't see Verrazano ever winning the Belmont.

Govenor Charlie
Revolutionary
Lines of Battle

They are my favs at the moment for the Ky Derby.

Hi Dub,
Put that list where it belongs....I have a place for everything on this board....just like the Bingo board:>) I've seen more speed horses win the Belmont who looked like they couldn't go long then I've seen win the Derby. TJ

Lol TJ I will print it out and leave it in the WC that list might yet come in handy.

dublino wrote:Lol TJ I will print it out and leave it in the WC that list might yet come in handy.

Thanks:>)...You're right, that list could come in handy. So far (to this point) I've avoided having to eat the crow pie. I can't be the only one with the crow pie hanging over my head:>) So here's your penalty for messing up...in an appropriate Irish Limerick:>) TJ
There was a young Lad of River Rye,
Who was baked by mistake in a pie.
To his mother’s disgust
He emerged through the crust,
And exclaimed, with a yawn, "Where am I?"

TJ wrote:

Whirlaway wrote:I've seen a few of em', none like this one.

At this point in time he has shown all the attributes of a Champion: class, athleticism, readiness, high early speed, a relaxed elastic stride, willingness, determination and a late turn of foot while never tiring - will his stamina, late drive and endurance be tested come the Kentucky Derby?

Impressive at the start, he drew clear first asking by 8 lengths at 53k; drew off handily by 16 lengths next out 75kOC; bobbled at the start in the GII Tampa Bay, still got the lead and wired em' in the sand in a hand ride; made a mockery of the field in the Wood. Never felt the whip, has done it all too easy, never tested - none could match his ability and I don't believe any of em' will. I've read a few articles about this one and Pletcher commented that he has done some pretty feakish things in the morning workouts. I don't think we've seen this horse really run . . . I'm thinkin' come the Derby Pletcher, Cordero and Velazquez will have Verrazano grind em' into the dirt ala Spend A Buck, Derby 85'.

Congratulations to Let's Go Stable and the Coolmore Group, they have a nice one in Verrazano. And congratulations to TJ for seein' and recognizin' a fine right thoroughbred.

Lookin' forward to the next three, hopin' he stays well and makes history.

Nothin' like the Derby Trail !

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/racinghub/archive/2012/01/11/angel-cordero-s-last-ride.aspx

Hi Whirl,
I appreciate what you said, but it's almost embarrasing to take credit for recognizing his ability....we're talking about a horse Ray Charles could have seen is a good one:>) Verrazano is no slam dunk to win the Derby....let alone the TC, talk like that has no basis at this point. He is certainly more capable than Shaghai Bobby going a distance....but Verrazano is just as suspect as he was to go the mile and a quarter. Truth is, of all the 3YO's I've seen at Palm Meadows, who I thought were outstanding Derby prospects, (Funny Cide, Barbaro, Street Sense, Big Brown, Super Saver and Verrazano), the two Pletcher horses were the most vulnerable (Super Saver and Verrazano). In my opinion, Verrazano is the one most vulnerable to win the Derby because of his breeding. His sire never sired a runner to win at the 1 1/4 mile distance on dirt. I believe he gets his stamina from his dam's side....and that may not be enough. If the Derby was run on the turf....I'd say he'd be a slam dunk (Monade)...but the dirt could make it tough for him to get that last 1/4 with no water:>) As Dub said many times...we really haven't seen enough from him to tell what he will do at the distance come Derby day. He is the most vulnerable of those 3YO's I've been impressed by....yet he has a knack for overachieving. He is a special horse....but may not be as effective going the Derby distance. I think he will, but I also believe he will be stretching his limitations at that distance. I believe he will run his eyeballs out in the Derby, but if he gets beat I wouldn't be surprised....he has more against him then he has going for him between his breeding and the fact he never raced as a 2YO. If they aren't inherently able to go that distance, they hit an invisible wall at the 3/16ths pole. There was no doubt about Big Brown, Street Sense or Barbaro, they were proven before they got to CD. Verrazano is still a work in progress going into the Derby.....if he gets away with it, the Preakness should be easier....but the Belmont will be yet a new frontier for him. TJ

I’m gonna pick a horse and give the data to support why I think he’ll win. If he doesn’t win, which will be a great deal of the time, I fully intend to understand why. Winnin’ is great, can’t never get tired of winnin’, but understanding and learning why a horse didn’t win can be just and sometimes more rewarding.

I had three bullets, Shanghai Bobby, Vyjack and Verrazano. Shanghai, Champion at two, came back at three set a track record first time out running second in the Holy Bull. Pletcher figured he progress, showed strong works but didn’t fire in the Florida. Why? In Cramer’s Thoroughbred Cycles, he wrote: “There is too much evidence that premature racing in pressure situations causes a downward-spiral life cycle for racing's child prodigies . . .” In addition he commented, “The sequence of events, then, in the "bounce" cycle is: layoff - peak effort - underachievement - possible improvement”; with Shanghai probably a little bit of both. Second bullet Vyjack showed a layoff and peak effort in the Gotham scoring a RPF -46 then underachieved in the Wood with a RPF -31 – Carmer had it and I better understood the why of Shanghai.

Verrazano is a different case, unraced at two he won first out, scored by 16 in his next, won in a hand ride in the G2 Tampa and make a mockery of the field in the G1 Wood. Who is gonna beat him, how and why? Between now and the Derby I’ll make the case for Verrazano to win it all. If he doesn't, I'll be figurin' to understand why.

What I won’t do is pick a horse and in the same sentence hedge and give a reason why he won’t win. What good is that – might as well not pick him at all ! Losin’ is a part of this game, gotta live with it. No doubt there will always be a snide comment from those that don’t have the guts to post their pick before the race. Of course we wish their horse well and hope to see em' come Derby time!

Verrazano to win it all.

Lookin’ forward to the Big Dance.

Lovin' the Derby Trail !

I picked Normandy Invasion for the Wood.

Race went against him no pace, it was a 4f sprint.
Not good for a deep closer.

The fact he got so close to Verrazano who's stride was shortening (don't care what the jock said) says to me he was "unlucky".