Non Milky creme gene

[vineyridge]

Other than Sylfou and Glitter Please, what recent lines of TB besides Milkie have got the creme gene?

What causes a creme gene to express? Does one parent actually have to have expressed the gene?

[Jorge]

Lets see.

Take a look at these previously posted threads:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... t=palomino

http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... t+perlinos

[Derby Lyn]

I believe those are the only known lines of dilutes in tbs. And atleast one parent has to be dilute to produce a dilute. However, a greyed out dilute can still produce a non-grey dilute.

[Jorge]

List the Cremellos you know:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... =cremellos

[xfactor fan]

There are probably a few other palominos out there that are descended from Lucky Two Bits, dam of Glitter Please. Lemon Bits the filly by Hammered Copper is listed as palomino.

Briggs & Beth Cunningham are the breeders, and seem to have tried to keep the line alive.

[Bellissima]

I'm assuming Milky was a palomino? Does anyone know where his dilute gene came from?

[xfactor fan]

No one knows for sure where the cream gene came from.

Theories include a fence jumping QH, strong selection against the "golden" palomino, so that the only cream carriers are the very dark versions, and some chance mutations.

Don't know if any lab has looked at the cream mutation to see if all the creams are the identical mutation.


New science is always interesting to look at, and there is now some research that indicates that enviornmental issues can actually "unlock" genes out of the junk DNA. First discovered in mice, (something they fed the females caused a whole litter of brown mice to be born to a pure line of albino mice) Was a bit of a shock to the researchers to say the least.

Barring any new and wierd genetics going on, his bottom line is full of brown or black mares, who could have been smokey blacks.

[Jorge]

For me the presence of Hyperion (the one-man-gang of coat color oddities) is sufficient to me. Then there is The Tetrarch, Pennant, Blue Larkspur, Teddy and Peter Pan. Unfortunately I cannot provide proof on their degree of influence, but I have noticed the conspicuous presence of these ancestors, pedigree after pedigree. Perhaps a "Savant" human being can take the pedigree list of thousands of rare phenotypically designed Thoroughbreds I have gathered and present us a more predictable reduced list, but until then all I can say is to expose the suspects.

[TrueColours]

I'm assuming Milky was a palomino? Does anyone know where his dilute gene came from?

If there is one thing I hate, its someone pretending to be stupid ... ... and asking stupid questions under an alter to boot ...

Bellisima is Fred on many other boards / cafe latte on HGS / Bellisima here

Several years ago this thread was on COTH:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showt ... hp?t=26274

And "Fred" participated rather vigorously on that thread and seemed to know EXACTLY that Milkie was a palomino and she even spelled his name right on all of those posts!:

Nov. 7, 2004, 04:49 AM
Fred
Schoolmaster Join Date: Nov. 28, 2000
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,712



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Originally posted by Little Indian:
you should ask this on the Sport Horse Breeding Forum http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif

ah yes, that could be exciting...but we don't want anymore 'smackdowns'. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif I'll go into withdrawal..
I have wondered the same thing. I have examined the pedigrees to try to find the 'source' and you're right, things just don't make sense to me either. again, not stirring anything up either - it's just that as a TB breeder and someone fascinated by TB pedigrees, it is a mystery to me..



Nov. 11, 2004, 03:28 AM
Fred
Schoolmaster Join Date: Nov. 28, 2000
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,712



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We have all talked about inbreeding on other threads, and the opinion has always been that inbreeding is a good thing, providing the individual that you are inbreeding to is exceptional, ie Nasrullah etc.
However, one of the concerns that I have had about the palomino TBs is the degree of inbreeding (due to the scarcity/rarity of the individuals) -and that "Milkie" is being inbred to quite closely. Other than his colour, what excellent characteristics did Milkie possess that would make him a desirable Sport Horse sire? This foot problem - a club foot?- of his referred to on Gold Hope Farm's site - was this a genetic thing?
I am not trying to stir up anything, just asking a question that has been on my mind for some time. How concerned are the coloured TB breeders about the degree of inbreeding and to this particular horse?
__________________
A FINE ROMANCE - JC Reg Thoroughbred - GOLD Premium CSHA - ISR/OLDNA Approved www.afineromance.ca
CSHA Brickenden Stallion Award Winner - for Performance offspring.

Of course you werent trying to "stir anything up then Gail" just like you are not trying to stir up anything on this board either ... ... or on HGS either ...

Why not post under your own name? Or are you still trying to pretend to be someone else so you can ask "innocent questions" without "stirring something up???

[Bellissima]

No one knows for sure where the cream gene came from.

Theories include a fence jumping QH, strong selection against the "golden" palomino, so that the only cream carriers are the very dark versions, and some chance mutations.

Don't know if any lab has looked at the cream mutation to see if all the creams are the identical mutation.


New science is always interesting to look at, and there is now some research that indicates that enviornmental issues can actually "unlock" genes out of the junk DNA. First discovered in mice, (something they fed the females caused a whole litter of brown mice to be born to a pure line of albino mice) Was a bit of a shock to the researchers to say the least.

Barring any new and wierd genetics going on, his bottom line is full of brown or black mares, who could have been smokey blacks.

Thanks for your interesting, reasonable and polite response, xfactor.

For him to be a dilute, wouldn't Milky's sire or dam need to be a dilute? Does anyone know which one was? and if they had any other dilute offspring? I'm just curious where they came from, seemingly so suddenly, and what seemed to be out of nowhere.


And as for me 'pretending' to be anyone other than myself?
That is just ridiculous.

It's what is known as a "user name"
'Fred' is not actually my name either.

And my user name is not an 'alter' either.
An alter, as far as I understand it, is when someone uses one name on a bb, let's say "Spot', and then uses other names such as 'Spotless' or 'Unspotted' on the same board pretending to be other people, and touting her stallion and or foals.

[color]

Sorry but I am getting tired of this old question of WHERE does the dilution come from as we have discussed this numerous and numerous times! It always brings up angry discussions and leaves a bad taste as some people want to imply that it came from a QH or Saddlebred or whatever bloodline and do not want to admit that it really comes from the initial TB breeding.

It is coming from the Achal-Tekke bloodlines that once were influenced into the TB breeding just like the Sabino mostly comes from the Arabians that were once influenced into the TB breeding. The Achal-Tekkes have those dilutions since beginning and f.e. Darcy's Yellow Turk was one. There was no QH jumping any fence! We had dilute TBs here in Europe already when we did not yet have dilute QH over here. The dilution can hide very well under black, black bay/brown and bay coates and after all for a long time people did not even know what a Palomino is or looks like so they were described as chestnuts with blonde mane and tail, blonde chestnuts, light chestnuts and the really light buckskins were light bays, golden bays etc. It is a problem of the JCs all over the world that have entered the buckskins and palominos as their base coloring. There are plenty known Palomino and Buckskin TBs but they are inscribed into their JCs as bay and chestnut. People also did not care as much for the color before as they do now. And the TBs were using mainly dark colors not chestnuts, just like the Holsteiners, where Marlon was breeding who was undetected over years as buckskin. But when he was bred to a chestnut mare, this mare had twice a Palomino foal. The colt was sold to the Hungarian states stud as Martaloc and the filly became a famous jumping horse owned by count Breido zu Rantzau. She has then been sold to Italy.

I hope this brings that discussion to an end and people will finally accept and understand that the dilution was there always, just not identified and misunderstood!