Liver Chestnut???

Linda_d · Postby **Linda_d** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:58 pm

I always thought that a liver chestnut was, well, liver colored like a chocolate lab or a German Short-haired pointer -- or at least a dark chestnut as opposed to a reddish chestnut (or sorrel if you're a QH person).

I saw this horse on the banner ads, and she looks more like a wild bay than a liver chestnut (http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-197470). I've seen other horses called liver chestnut that looked like just ordinary reddish chestnuts or possibly wild bays.

Is "liver chestnut" simply in the eye of the beholder?

HeadlessHorseman · Postby **HeadlessHorseman** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:14 pm

She looks bay to me too... She has some chrome doesn't she????

HH

pfrsue · Postby **pfrsue** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:19 am

She might darken up in the winter and look a little more liver-ish.

Maybe.

Toccet02 · Postby **Toccet02** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:43 am

to me, what makes a liver chestnut is not the degree of dark or light, although light chestnuts are rarely liver chestnuts. It's this (evil) pink/red or purplish hue that seems to bleed off the coat, especially around the tail head. Look at Ide's picture here on the forum.

Not very scientific I know, but I know one when I see one!
And it's my least favorite color. :wink:

ireneinwa · Postby **ireneinwa** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:24 am

This horse is not a bay thats for sure.

KBEquine · Postby **KBEquine** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:49 am

She's definitely a chestnut - she lacks a bay's black points around her legs -- which would appear above the stockings - and her tail appears chestnut. I've seen several chestnuts whose mane is such a darker shade of red than their body that it looks black until you see it up close.

But I don't know if she is a liver chestnut, or not. I've never seen a decent definition of the color but I've heard it applied anticdotally to many different shades of red.

RiddleMeThis · Postby **RiddleMeThis** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:24 pm

She looks chestnut to me, not wild.

But not all bays have points to their knees.

ak1 · Postby **ak1** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:03 pm

Liver chestnut, to me, is the color of Mr Greeley or his son WhyWhyWhy. In my eyes there is no mistaking either of them for being bay.

Toccet02 · Postby **Toccet02** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:02 am

ak1 wrote:Liver chestnut, to me, is the color of Mr Greeley or his son WhyWhyWhy. In my eyes there is no mistaking either of them for being bay.

To me, that's like a caramel color, and not a liver chestnut. :roll:

There needs to be a real definition!

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:02 am

Whatever opinions might be about the meaning of "liver chestnut," here is the definition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver_(color)

and here is another definition

LIVER CHESTNUT
Liver Chestnut is a red-based color pattern that closely mimics Bay, Black, and Silver. Liver Chestnut horses are dark red to almost black in body color, with dark manes and tails. Their legs may be the same color as their bodies, or they may be darker, again mimicking Bay. If you see a Bay-like horse whose points are dark but not quite black, or a Bay-like horse with black mane and tail but legs that are not black, that is a Liver Chestnut.

An earlier poster in this thread stated that not all bay horses have black legs. I would contend that "bay" horses without black legs have been incorrectly identified, and are really liver chestnut.

ireneinwa · Postby **ireneinwa** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:03 am

madelyn wrote:An earlier poster in this thread stated that not all bay horses have black legs. I would contend that "bay" horses without black legs have been incorrectly identified, and are really liver chestnut.

I agree

RiddleMeThis · Postby **RiddleMeThis** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:22 pm

All of these horses are 100% without doubt genetically bay. Their sire is EEAA. The only option for them is bay.

Genetic tests trump looks.

Nessa · Postby **Nessa** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:18 pm

ireneinwa wrote:
madelyn wrote:An earlier poster in this thread stated that not all bay horses have black legs. I would contend that "bay" horses without black legs have been incorrectly identified, and are really liver chestnut.

I agree

Lam of Mull as a yearling with no black:

Lam of Mull as an adult, still with no black:

K~2 · Postby **K~2** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:23 pm

RiddleMeThis wrote:All of these horses are 100% without doubt genetically bay. Their sire is EEAA. The only option for them is bay.

Genetic tests trump looks.

I find these colour threads quite interesting, as I have always found coat colour genetics quite simple. It's the phenotypes that make things confusing

Anyways.. my question is... when we have chestnut foals born at the farm, they have a very distinctive 'pinky' coloured eyelids at birth, that gradually get darker as they get older.

So do these genetic bays (like the ones pictured) come out with eyelids that are black, or darker pigmentation?

Toccet02 · Postby **Toccet02** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:13 pm

I swear I saw a "root beer" colored chestnut at del Mar on yesterday's card. Never seen that shade. Almost like a dark medium brown but with hints of coppery tones. Mane Tail same exact shade, no white, no black legs