Pedigree Query

Just thought I'd explain what this actually is

Weatherby's is the oldest official stud book in the World based in England
(you can find it's history on the Weatherby's website)

It has two registries : The General Stud Book (for all TB's with proven parentage) and The Non Thoroughbred Register (for horses without a full TB pedigree)
Any horse can be registered in the NTR whether it is of unknown parentage or is registered in another breed society with proven parentage.

Any horse, mare or stallion has to be I.D'd by a vet and a stallion has to apply for a Weatherby's stallion license, which a vet declares he is free from any hereditary diseases etc.

This mare or stallion is given the prefix of V11 (7) showing it is a foundation horse (Angrove's Ricco I think must have V11 after his name)

The 8th generation rule can only start from a V11 even if the horse has a TB sire or Dam further back in it's pedigree.

Any horse that is V11 will not show any parentage..he/she is shown as Unknown parentage...however if the V11 horse is from another studbook and is double registered, his parentage is logged with Weatherby's but for the sake of the NTR it is shown as unknown.

So you can register with Weatherby's NTR if you have a Welsh pony, a hanovarian or Joe Blogg's cob you bought out the field.
But you wouldn't bother doing that unless the horse was worth breeding as it is really expensive to register with Weatherby's compared to other stud books.

Although a NTR can race, you wouldn't bother unless it had a very high percent of TB blood (Angroves 2yo is 15/16ths I think)

In England, Ireland and especially France there is a high percent of NTR that race..usually steeplechase (National Hunt) not usually flat race.

National Hunt racing is huge and almost on equal terms with Flat racing in these countries and many NTR (especially French) have won the big classic NH races all over Europe (probably farther afield but I don't know about them)

If you check out the big classic races in England, Ireland and France you can probably find a list of winners that are NTR (I can't remember what the French call their NTR)
A French NTR horse won the Cheltenham Gold Cup here a few years back but I can't remember his name.

I can't always get a good internet connection here so it's difficult doing research online. The info is from memory but if anyone else can do some reseach and get the names that would be great

Forgot to add : they are DNA'd and registered exactly the same as the GSB requirements.

Also V11 is only after a foundation horse's name not any progeny in the NTR..they just have a name without the letters.

Not to forget WB stallions that have NO approval are often registered NTR to get their offspring papers.

Dear Truly,

I earnestly appreciate the fine courtesy of assisting us with your valuable posting. Please feel free to add any other missing detail worth mentioning.
This topic is worth a great discussion. Great! Thanks again!

THE FOLLOWING 3 INTERESTING THREADS ARE CLOSELY RELATED SO I AM POSTING
THEIR LINKS FOR FUTURE CROSS-REFERENCES.

A LEGITIMATE WAY OF INTRODUCING APPALOOSA MARKINGS? [posted by “BAST”]
http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... hp?t=28476

WEATHERBY’S NTR EXPLAINED [posted by Truly]
http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... hp?t=28511

FROM PSEUDO-THOROUGHBREDS TO THOROUGHBREDS [posted by Jorge]
http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... hp?t=28501

More information?

Thank you, Truly!

So.. does this mean that ,If 3 generations are still alive, and have DNA access.. all three generations could be registered, so that the youngest would become V? ..as in oldest VII, second oldest VI .. or would they not register all 3 at once?

belambi wrote:So.. does this mean that ,If 3 generations are still alive, and have DNA access.. all three generations could be registered, so that the youngest would become V? ..as in oldest VII, second oldest VI .. or would they not register all 3 at once?

Yes..you could register all three at the same time but it would be doubtful that the youngest were not already registered with another stud book.

Over here a horse must hold one original breed passport..it may be overstamped with another society but that can not be swapped.

I don't know for sure without phoning up and asking but I don't think it could be backdated so that the youngest could be called 3rd generation NTR.....if it hadn't already been registered with another breed society it could.......but as most would apply for a breed passport in the year of birth (it's law in England for a horse to have a passport whether a breed or a heinze 57) it's doubtful to have three generations of family not passported already.

I had a similiar problem a couple of years back.
My horses are full TB and registered in the GSB that I have been breeding for the last 24 years.
A couple of years ago I was looking at my 2005 fillys Weatherby's passport and realised it said NTR instead of GSB.
I phoned up Weatherby's saying they had made a mistake as my filly was full TB and they informed me that her sire was actually registered in the NTR and not the GSB!
I threw a 'fit' as like any breeder you want your stock in the main studbook of any society!
It turned out the sires dam was not correctly registered by her breeder (probably couldn't be bothered or was saving money?) even though her siblings were in the GSB
Luckily they had all her DNA on file (even tho' she had since died) and as long as her last owners (who owned my filly's sire) were willing to pay the fee's they would transfer her to the GSB and transfer her son and then transfer my filly correctly into the GSB.
I contacted my fillys sire's owners and they did pay the fee's and luckily all were transferred over

Slightly different I know as it was the same society..but they wouldn't have been able to transfer them over it it hadn't been for the stored DNA data.

Hi Truly Weatherbys were great when we got Ricco approved by Weatherbys NTR I did ask if his sire could go down as Ricco is really our first generation cross and his dam was registered as a mare but not a broodmare if her Blood had been taken as she is now dead, we could have paid the broodmare fee of £87 and got her registered and then Ricco would have been the 1st cross to a GSB sire. a great shame people do not spend the money and register their stock properly in this country.

Interesting thread posted at the General Discussion section related to a topic we recently discussed here (The Color Section)

KEENELAND SEPTEMBER HIP 1773 INFO
http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... hp?t=28848

Any comments?

I called them to see if they could find a pic of my mare's 3rd dam foaled in England. She had won stakes in England, Ireland and France, I wanted to see what she looked like. They found pics and emailed. They are really nice people.

ireneinwa wrote:I called them to see if they could find a pic of my mare's 3rd dam foaled in England. She had won stakes in England, Ireland and France, I wanted to see what she looked like. They found pics and emailed. They are really nice people.

That's great ! I'd be really happy they did that too

Can you post the pics and tell us more ?