Pedigree Query

Hello every one,

There is a grey horse in France, named Question Day (http://www.pedigreequery.com/question+day) who appears to be born from 2 non grey parents.
The horse is a true grey (not a black/brown sabino which sometimes seems to be grey), here is a picture of him :



How is it possible ?

Either one of the parents turned grey after he/she was registered as being another color, or else the color information in the Pedigree Query pedigree is wrong.

I though that one of the parents turned out grey but how ? The sire is bay and the dam has no grey parents. The informations on pedigree query are correct, they are the same as on the french databases.

Olly wrote:I though that one of the parents turned out grey but how ? The sire is bay and the dam has no grey parents. The informations on pedigree query are correct, they are the same as on the french databases.

Horses aren't always registered their correct colors, ESPECIALLY TBS.

The simplest explanation is that the sire turned gray late and was registered bay instead.

I understand but here is a picture of the sire during his racing career, no sign of greying :



You really think he could have turned grey later ?

Olly wrote:You really think he could have turned grey later ?

Yes I really do, or I wouldn't have said it. I have photos somewhere of a 7 or 8 year old who had barely started graying. Sadly I think I may have lost them in a computer switch a while ago.

By observing the provided photograph it seems to me that QUESTION DAY possesses the phenotype of a normal gray (G/g) gene carrier and not the appearance of a cropout "Stained White" (which is the only possibility when dealing with correctly registered parents).

Question Day is sporting dark skin and hooves, dark areas around the nostrils, (whitening with age) dark points on the legs and normal dark hairs in his mane. All these indicators betrays a gray horse, period!

When we are in the presence of a cropout "Stained White", the design is quite different from that of a gray and the observer detects it immediately.
The reaction of the observer is that of seeing a "white" equine with a very maculated appearance.

Since it is evident that we are not dealing here with a cropout "Stained White", we have no other reasonable option than to analyze this case from the premise of being a normal "Gray".

I have no evidence to contradict the photograph showing that Question Day's sire was a solid color equine. But I am a little puzzled with the fact that he is coming from the very influential gray lineage of Kendor; a French lineage widely known for stamping gray-ness wherever he goes.

On the other hand, the bottom line of Question Day's pedigree doesn't seem to be the culprit.

Another factor that seems to fuel the argument of a normal gray sire is that the official records seems to be correct all the way back through many generations (upper and bottom halves).

Going back through his dam’s pedigree (King’s Widow) doesn’t seem to support the idea
that she was a gray because you will have to go back seven generations to find a single gray (in this case Native Dancer sire of Dan Cupid).

If there is an error in parentage that's another story and the paradigm changes completely.

In synthesis, unless a real outrageous one-of-a-kind birth occurred here,
I am convinced that Question Day's sire was actually a gray and that the photo of his sire was that of another horse or that he later grayed out completely (doesn’t seem according to that photo).

You be the judge!

Color me surprised!

A quick google search turned up several links that describe him as a gray horse.

One quote:

"Charge d'Affaires gr 95 Kendor-Lettre de Cachet (Secreto) Haras de la R. et de Montaigu, Orne Ff30,000"

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... ent=safari

I have to say that I am pretty shocked that there was any possibility of the horse in the database photo turning out to be be a gray.

freshman wrote:I have to say that I am pretty shocked that there was any possibility of the horse in the database photo turning out to be be a gray.

It's also completely possible that the horse in the database is NOT Charge d'Affaires.

RiddleMeThis wrote: It's also completely possible that the horse in the database is NOT Charge d'Affaires.

That's the most likely answer.

Can't find any pictures of Charge on the net but I would suspect that is just the wrong picture. Or he did turn grey later. Here is his sire:
http://www.le-cheval-bleu.com/eng/kendor.htm

Well, how about Charge d'affaires being some kind of Chimera? Reproductive cells from a grey sibling absorbed in utero?

The photo is definitely of Charge... I can read his saddle cloth.

Since some sources list him as gray I'd say he just turned very late.

xfactor fan wrote:Well, how about Charge d'affaires being some kind of Chimera? Reproductive cells from a grey sibling absorbed in utero?

If this is possible, I think that could be the explanation.
I wrote to the stud where Chargé d'Affaires stood last year, and they told me he is a BAY. So no late greying.

Were Question Day and Charge both DNA typed?