Update on the Australian AI in Tbs legal case

[belambi]

It all goes back to court on 15th Sept

http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/index.php/bl ... e-century/

[TrueColours]

Wow - how neat! I didnt even think that was still ongoing - I thought it was settled (in the JC's favor). End of story ...

[LB]

Much of what McHugh and his lawyer have to say--at least according to that article--doesn't make a lot of sense. For example this:

As McHugh’s counsel, Ian Tonking, points out, major studs such as Coolmore, Darley and Arrowfield make millions from northern hemisphere shuttle stallions, with service fees of up to $A200,000.

Under such circumstances, ownership of a top stallion was hugely profitable – provided it was not challenged by artificial insemination.

The live-cover requirement means large-scale commercial stud farms effectively had a “licence to print money”, Tonking told the court.

Do they somehow believe that the use of artificial insemination would change the ownership of the stallion? Or that it would necessarily change the stud fees that are charged?

I tend to agree with the Australian Jockey Club that the Australian TB industry would be globally isolated, and certainly hurt if not decimated, by a ruling in favor of AI.

[summerhorse]

They are saying that AI will bring down those fees and loosen up the hold that the big boys have over the stallion business. I don't think the first will happen to the extent people would hope. Yes a little but the best stallions will always command the best prices and the rich people will always own most of the best stallions and control the purse (fee) strings.

What AI will help is the mid level and lower breeder upgrade their stock, take out of production horses that should have been gelded/spayed long ago and let bloodlines reach around the world without shipping valuable animals. Hopefully it would also put out of business the Nurse mare business. But that's another post/argument!

[LB]

They are saying that AI will bring down those fees and loosen up the hold that the big boys have over the stallion business.

I agree, that is what they're saying. But they're either confused about the TB breeding business model or seriously delusional if they think that's true. (Could be, of course, that they don't believe it's true but think that it makes a convincing argument and that a judge and/or jury won't know the difference.)

Hopefully it would also put out of business the Nurse mare business. But that's another post/argument!

Could you please explain that? I don't understand how AI and the need for nurse mares is related.

[madelyn]

They are saying that AI will bring down those fees and loosen up the hold that the big boys have over the stallion business.

I agree, that is what they're saying. But they're either confused about the TB breeding business model or seriously delusional if they think that's true. (Could be, of course, that they don't believe it's true but think that it makes a convincing argument and that a judge and/or jury won't know the difference.)

Hopefully it would also put out of business the Nurse mare business. But that's another post/argument!

Could you please explain that? I don't understand how AI and the need for nurse mares is related.

I think the opposite is true. With live cover, nurse mares are only sought if a mare dies or cannot raise her own foal.. with AI the door is also opened for embryo transplant so it would likely CREATE a need for surrogates and nurse mares.

The logic regarding the ownership of the stallions changing if AI were permitted is ill-conceived. The only thing I can see changing is no more shuttling.

[summerhorse]

Regional mares being bred to mares in KY (or elsewhere) are more and more often sent without foals and the foals are put on nurse mares. TBs aren't the only breeds doing this. Other foals are put on nurse mares for convenience. What I don't understand is why there is even a nurse mare business now that lactation can be induced without pregnancy. Or keep the mares but don't breed them.

[Georgerz]

First time I ever heard of mares being bred to mares. The advances of science are mindboggling!

[madelyn]

The post is mindboggling. What does the sentence, "Or keep the mares but don't breed the mares." actually mean?

[summerhorse]

The post is mindboggling. What does the sentence, "Or keep the mares but don't breed the mares." actually mean?

It means keep the nurse mare herd but don't breed them, use induced lactation instead. No excess foals to dispose of.

[Truly]

I can't see how winning a court case in Australia will make any difference to allowing AI ? It's the International Stud Book Committee that allows any changes and even then it's up to the individual continents whether they want to include them in their rules.

BTW I hate the use of nurse mares...use them for Embryo Transfer instead!

[belambi]

I can't see how winning a court case in Australia will make any difference to allowing AI ? It's the International Stud Book Committee that allows any changes and even then it's up to the individual continents whether they want to include them in their rules.

BTW I hate the use of nurse mares...use them for Embryo Transfer instead!

Interesting statment. The Australian stud book has only just accepted dilutes this year.. left with no choice since other countries have allowed them..also frame overos. So yes there is of course an international stud book, but the International rules state that ultimately the country has the final say in their own rules.

[madelyn]

What could end up if the Australian Jockey Club approves AI is that Aussie horses will not be accepted into other stud books for racing or breeding purposes.

[Truly]

Each individual studbook can't change a rule or make a new one...it's the ISBC that make or change them...once the ISBC has agreed to something ie said that they will include cremello as a listed colour...then it is up to the individual stud books if they want to include them.

The Australian Studbook weren't forced to include Palominos, Cremellos or Overos..The ISBC had already approved those colours and said to the individual studbooks that they could include them.

Germany put forward to the ISBC the case for Palomino to be included because of RFF The Alchemist being imported to Germany....England put forward to the ISBC the case of Cremello to be included because of Electrum being imported to England....not sure which individual country put forward the case of Overo?

So an Individual Studbook can not make up it's own rules without the authorisation of the ISBC.....hope that makes sense

[Truly]

Sorry I had a brain freeze..it was Glitter of Gold not The Alchemist