Horses being registered under false flag

[alezan]

I know of Pete McCue but who are the other known horses that are known to have falsely been registered as thouroughbreds?

[Pan Zareta]

I know of Pete McCue but who are the other known horses that are known to have falsely been registered as thouroughbreds?

Barney Lucus (yes, that's the correct spelling) 1910
Some/all of the offspring of Twilight 1896
All bred by D.W. Christian, Big Spring, TX, and anything w/ him as breeder should be considered suspect.

Somewhat more recently, Chicaro's Hallie 1930

A couple that are widely assumed to be fraudulent , but probably were not: Uncle Jimmie Gray 1906, and Belle of Oakford aka: Carrie Nation 1899.

Peter McCue's pedigree was suspect from the get go, but the only substantive evidence that he was falsely registered is the notarized ctf. of pedigree executed by the breeder's son in the late 1940's. It seems a bit strange that the breeder himself recorded the horse in his ledger as "by Duke" [of the Highlands].

[alezan]

Thank's, I looked at these pedigrees and googled their names but couldn't find any more information. What's the catch with them?

[Pan Zareta]

What's the catch with them?

I'm not sure what you mean. All names mentioned in my previous post are recorded by both the Jockey Club and AQHA, but under different pedigrees, and all except the foals reg. w/ the JC as Twilight's produce turn up in contemporary pedigrees from both breeds. The falsification of pedigree as recorded by the JC for Barney Lucus, Twilight's produce, and Chicaro's Hallie was acknowledged or affirmed by their breeders. The same cannot be said of Uncle Jimmie Gray or Belle of Oakford/Carrie Nation. No breeder or owner ever in any way contradicted their pedigree as on rcd. w/ the JC, but early QH researchers chose to ignore that fact and record their lineage based upon unsubstantiated, and usually second-hand at best, oral history.

If you're asking why something would be registered under false pedigree, the short answer is to maintain eligibility for entry in the main body of the stud book for those individuals and their get from or produce by other reg. TB's. After the appendix to the American Stud Book was closed (1898) short-pedigreed or half-bred stock could be registered, but not published in the ASB, for racing purposes only. Their value as breeding stock was further diminished by the racing blackouts in the US during the early 20th cent., and the 1913 Jersey Act which precluded registration in the GSB of anything that could not be traced in every line to stock already recorded therein.

[alezan]

Well I'm not that in to Quarter horses so that's why I missed the catch. But I still don't really get it (a language thing) are the records regarding these horses true or false here on pedigree query?

[Pan Zareta]

are the records regarding these horses true or false here on pedigree query?

The records for Barney Lucus, Twilight's produce, and Chicaro's Hallie are the same pedigrees as recorded w/ the Jockey Club and published in the ASB, but according to their breeders they are false.

The record for Peter McCue shows his sire as the unregistered Dan Tucker, rather than as Duke of the Highlands (which is how he was reg. w/ the JC). It's consistent with his pedigree as attested to by the son of the breeder 50 yrs after the horse was foaled. Most people would say it's true.

The records for Uncle Jimmie Gray and Belle of Oakford/Carrie Nation are as rec. w/ the Jockey Club, and are probably true.