*Day Dream II & *Tetrance

[Pan Zareta]

*Day Dream II(GB), m. 1916 Mushroom - Book Muslin by Chaucer
tentative/partial list of produce:
Creda f. 1921 by Gay Crusader
*Tetrance(GB) f. 1922 by The Tetrarch
Bonnie Dream (USA) 1933 by Kilkerry

Creda is shown in the db here. Tetrance's pedigree is verified from old JC papers in my possession. Bonnie Dream is shown as o/o Day Dream in the '02 APR (1940-2001).

Am looking for full produce record on both *Day Dream II & *Tetrance from GSB and ASB. (Already have the two shown in the db here for Tetrance.) I haven't any GSBs from that era and my ASBs jump from vol. xiii to the supplements to vol. xvii. Names of importers and/or owners would be icing on the cake. Any and all help appreciated!!


TIA

[Lucy]

This is Day Dream's report from an older APR (1920-1995) - but there's a gap in my studbooks for those years, too, so I can't confirm that it's complete. I've found a lot of the pre-1940 APR entries to be rather patchy, particularly for imported mares.

*DAY DREAM 2ND, 16, =Mushroom (Gb)- =Bookmuslin (Gb) by =Chaucer (Gb).
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SSI
21 =Creda (Gb),f,=Gay Crusader (Gb) Unraced
22 *Tetrance,f,=The Tetrarch (Gb) Unraced
27 *Dixie Dreamer,f,=Chosroes (Gb) Unraced
28 Texas Dream,c,*Phalaros Unraced
30 Dream Porte,f,*Porte Drapeau 2 8 0 0 1 100 0.12
31 Rosy Dreams,f,*Porte Drapeau 3 47 3 1 7 1,070 0.28
32 Gay Dream,f,*Porte Drapeau 4 45 2 2 2 1,060 0.29
33 Bonnie Dream,f,Kilkerry 6 68 9 11 11 6,740 1.22

The only one I could find an owner/breeder for was Gay Dream, who was bred by Three D's Stock Farm in Texas, and by 1939-1941 was owned by one Harry Murdock.

The same APR only shows two foals for *Tetrance, Tetros & Gray Porte.

I didn't have time add any of those foals to the DB, but I'll do it tomorrow if you don't get to 'em first.

[Pan Zareta]

Thanks a million, Lucy! I'm up late waiting for a call from the UK & will add the new names right now.

Another question - JC & NQHBA papers that I have show Tetros as by *Phalaros or Porte Drapeau". AQHA papers show him as by *Porte Drapeau. Period. Wouldn't the first name listed on the JC papers be the most likely sire? If so I need to change his sire as shown here.

Wish I had one of those APRs that goes back to 1920!

Thanks again!

[Lucy]

Another question - JC & NQHBA papers that I have show Tetros as by *Phalaros or Porte Drapeau". AQHA papers show him as by *Porte Drapeau. Period. Wouldn't the first name listed on the JC papers be the most likely sire?

You'd think so - indeed, I thought so myself until recently - but that's not the case, at least not with TB's. The stallions are listed in the order in which they covered the mare, with the second being the more likely culprit.

[Pan Zareta]

You'd think so - indeed, I thought so myself until recently - but that's not the case, at least not with TB's. The stallions are listed in the order in which they covered the mare, with the second being the more likely culprit.

I had a deja vu moment reading that. Was this subj. discussed somewhere on this forum? Or it may have been on one of the yahoo mailing lists. Wherever, I wasn't paying sufficient attention.

His name itself suggests that whomever chose it believed Tetros to be by Phalaros. But I'm glad to have sound reason to leave him shown as a Sunstar grandson rather than yet one more member of the ubiquitous sire line Clan Phalaris.

One last ? - would the JC (equibase, or brisnet) be able to provide a full record on a horse from that era - ownership transfers, mares bred, etc.?

Thanks again!

[Lucy]

One last ? - would the JC (equibase, or brisnet) be able to provide a full record on a horse from that era - ownership transfers, mares bred, etc.?

Good question. I've no idea. Can't hurt to e-mail them & ask, though!

[Bettina]

Hallo,
Maybe what I'm writing now, belong more to the topic of "Pedigree analysis", when I read the name "Bookmuslin", it just rings bell.

First I did I checked the pedigrees of the abovementioned mares and it turned out, it's the damline I had in mind. Bookmuslin is a FS of L'Abbesse de Jouarre the granddam of Desmond/Festa. I was really surprised to see this branch of family 16-c went to the U.S. Another descent of this branch is "The Font", a sire I saw a few times in South American pedigrees and in an "Chileanbred mare" Blumme (by Jadar) exported to Germany.

Festa (by St. Simon) is regarded in my homecountry as a topbroodmare. She had only 5 foals foals in Germany, but all of them were toprunners. She had 4 colts (Faust, Fervor, Fels, Festino) and 1 filly (Fabula). Faust sadly died at 4 year old. Her line still existed and still have several Group/Graded winners.

Festa was bred by Lord Dunraven in 1893 (see G.S.B. Vol. XIX, page 760)
imported 1901 (A. D. G. B. Vol. 16, page 182)
1898 barren
1899 brown colt unnamed by Winkfield
1900 brown colt Salute by Carbine
1901 chestnut filly Festal Air by Ayrshire Owner Lord Dunraven
1902 25.3. darkbrown colt Festino by Ayrshire owner A. and C. von Weinberg
1903 12.3. brown colt Fels by Hannibal
1904 25.2. chestnut filly Fabula by Hannibal
1905 23.1 chestnut colt Faust by Saraband
1906 7.4 darkbrown colt Fervor by Galtee More
1907 barren by Galtee More
1908 dead foal by Galtee More
1909 - 1914 barren

She was one of the foundationsmare of the famous "Waldfried Stud", it existed for about 80 years and their breeding operation ended in the Eighties.

Maybe you are surprised, when I tell you a horse from the German branch was sent to the U.S. His name is Ferrari (by Alkalde), he raced in your country, too. During the last years mostly in cheap claiming races. Luckily he found a good home and her owner bred him to her only mare.

If you go down his damline to mare named Fantasie (by Masetto), she has a load of Festa descents, including the female strain.

Best regards, Bettina

[Pan Zareta]

Hi Bettina,

If the db here is correct, it was Bookmuslin's dam Musley Maid that was FS to Labesse de Jouarre. I noticed Labesse when I pulled up a 14 generation female family record for Little Agnes, the taproot of family 16c, who as you noticed also appears in some South American pedigrees. Her tail female descendants have produced stakes winners there, North America, the UK, Europe, and Australia.

Where is Ferrari now?

Most of our ranch Quarter mares go back in tail female to this family, thanks to a purchase my father-in-law made as a young man in the 1930's. We've found the line to be an excellent source of soundness and intelligence when bred back to QH or TB. They sometimes throw a bit of temper too, but nothing truly excessive in that regard.

Judy