Breeding my Marsayas mare

hotrod horses · Postby **hotrod horses** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:21 pm

What would you say to Quarry? :?:

5-3-13-4-1 (26) DI=1.26 CD=0.27;GSV=61.80

Native Dancer 5Sx6sx4D
Princquillo 7sx5Dx5Dx7d

billl · Postby **billl** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:37 am

I don't see anything from Quarry that would make me recommend him, although his record does not look that bad. Any way, this does not solve the profitability issue of breeding your mare.

springboro · Postby **springboro** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:07 pm

Hi Hotrod,

Let's try it this way... I don't know anything about you and your experience with breeding thoroughbreds, but tell me what your expecations of this breeding would be?

If you're selling the foal, how much do you think you're going to get for it? Have you gone to any of the regional sales that have PA breds? Do you have an idea what an average PA bred sells for?

Are you planning on racing the foal yourself? Have you had a race horse? Do you know how much a trainer charges on a daily basis?

Again, if you have years and years of experience and these questions offend you, I'm very sorry. I'm trying to figure out what your experience is and what your expecations are.

THANKS

hotrod horses · Postby **hotrod horses** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:52 pm

I understand I won't get rich, I just want to breed the best foal with the mares that I have.

As for prices, Yes I have been to auctions in Iowa where I moved from and do understand this is not a get rich quick deal.

I do have a family friend who races at Presque Isle and does OK,
he is willing to run and train the babies.

Unlike a friend of mine in Iowa,I do not want to breed just to breed.
Iwant to get the most quality as possible from the mares and stallions that they would be bred to.

Also, No offense will be taken you have been doing this much longer than I and I do want your advice.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:56 pm

hotrod horses wrote:What would you say to Quarry?

Dreadful.

hotrod horses · Postby **hotrod horses** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:12 pm

madelyn wrote:
hotrod horses wrote:What would you say to Quarry?

Dreadful.

Why, where would you go with this mare?

walaa · Postby **walaa** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:05 pm

Surely any other stallion at xanthus besides Quarry.

hpkingjr · Postby **hpkingjr** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:06 pm

I like Delaware Township with your mare. He has sired at least two stakes winners from Damascus line mares (Electrify and Debie Ginsburg) plus I saw three or four more horses from Damascus line stallions that were winners.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php? ... 000000&f=1

ASB · Postby **ASB** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:42 pm

Stick to proven, consistent stallions in PA that improve their mares. Service Stripe comes to mind. With a mare like this, forget nicks and focus on getting something that can get out of it's own way.

As was mentioned, Delaware Township is another and will add speed to a pedigree that needs it.

hotrod horses · Postby **hotrod horses** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:26 am

Service Stripe is moving to Michigan for 2009.

JCBloodstock · Postby **JCBloodstock** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:03 am

Granted,attempting to breed for commercialbility on this mare is nil and none.I like how most look at commercialbility when anyone on the boards asks for suggestions and then complains when some big mare goes to a top ranking commercial stallion based on...............commercialbility.

This is a man trying to do with what he has,not everybody has the funds to do it what's considered right the first time.You start where you can and move up from there.

This mare has a modest sire and a tremendous female family.

First off the sire,Marsayas - a blue blood son of Damascus that never was.Modest on the track but out of a daughter of Round Table that produced 4 SW's and 1 SP.He got shipped off to Puerto Rico yet from very few foals sired the likes of Mister Frisky(Champion Two Year Old and Horse Of The Year at two in Puerto Rico then he came to the states to win The Santa Anita Derby and ran 3rd in The Preakness---he in turn sired the Grade 2 Suburban Winner Frisk Me Now);Marsayas also sired Rod And Staff(a SW of $600,000 plus);For a well bred son of Damascus that had no race record and stood in Puerto Rico he did quite well with very modest mares to choose from.

As far as the dam's side there is a lot to work with there and most anyone that can read a pedigree beyond the first dam would love to have the 2nd dam back in any and all mares they may have.

With that said,let's get back to the mare.Modest sire,nice female family.The mare herself did not show much ability on the track as evidenced by a top speed rating of 77 and winning 2 races going a route.If her race record does not say "I NEED TO BE CROSSED ON SPEED" I don't know what else can say it especially with her 59 speed index sprinting.

So let's breed her to Sterling Key by Key To The Mint(A horse that had 1 win in 18 starts in 3 years of racing);Buckhar by Dahar(A route turf horse);Tinners Way by Secretariat(another route horse) for her 1st 3 foals.

In Pennsylvania I would look at:

Partner's Hero and Siphon hands down;No doubt Partner Hero's fee will probably go up off the year he's having but both these horse were sprinters.Your breeding to race anyways so why not breed to the 2 top stallions in the state in 2008 ?

Sincerely Jeff

hotrod horses · Postby **hotrod horses** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:30 am

Thank you Jeff, You have been the most helpful, instead of finding the why nots you found the whys.

Thank you again :!:

kimberley mine · Postby **kimberley mine** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:34 am

I like this mare with Lite the Fuse.

He's got speed, he improves his mares, and most importantly, you have a better-than-average chance of making a profit with him...even without the state breeders awards. He's not picky about bloodlines in his mares, either.

Something I did notice is that he has two good horses with Hold the Rain's family behind them: one out of a Cozzene mare and one whose 2nd dam is Darby Creek Road, a Roberto half to Cozzene. Also, this foal is fairly close genetically to a prospective LTF/HTR foal: http://www.pedigreequery.com/racers+edge4 None of those is evidence of a home run about to happen, but it does mean that similar crosses have been tried and they're not whopping failures.

As far as sales go, reality is a foal out of this mare is not going to sell as a yearling. If it looks absolutely spectacular, is by a good sire like Lite the Fuse, and runs like its tail is on fire, you might get enough to break even at a 2yo sales.

hotrod horses · Postby **hotrod horses** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:46 am

I have been looking at Lite the Fuse, and do like him.
What about Rubiyat by Rubiano? Rubiano/Fappiono seems to add a lot to a mare, and there have been some very successful Damascus crosses along with Cozzene line mares.

kimberley mine · Postby **kimberley mine** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:38 am

Your mare's dam was tried with Fappiano, and the results were modest. The foal won over $90k, but it took him 27 wins and then some to do so, making each win purse less than $3000. Even in the early to mid 1980s, that's not all that much. Also, your mare is from the same family as Cozzene, but she's not a Cozzene-bred mare. I included the Cozzene and the Darby Creek Road-bred foals because that was two quality horses from the same family (out of limited options).

I think you also have a better chance of getting a decent runner from Lite the Fuse. On the Fox Tale website, they advertise that Rubiyat has 23 starters with about $850k in earnings...what they don't say is that 2 horses account for almost half of that. Take them out and his average (NOT median) earnings per starter is just past $20k...not enough to break even, even with breeder awards. It's also worth noting that his best foals are linebred to Mr P through quality sources, something Hold the Rain can't do.