Pedigree Query

Any ideas for our mare Miss Ardent? Here was her catalog page (we just bought her at the OBS mixed sale in Oct) http://www.obssales.com/octcatalog/2006/1470.PDF . She is currently in foal to Untuttable... Thanks in advance!

Three choices that I like a bit:

1. Delaware Township, $6500 at Padua. His sire Notebook carries the same Raja Baba/Tom Rolfe cross as Miss Ardent's dam. This cross could be worth repeating, as it keeps popping up in the stakes winning offspring of Raja Baba. On his damside he has some nice old Tatan Farms blood (In Reality and Minnesota Mac) that will complement the Fappiano in Miss Ardent's sireline. Delaware Township has a graded stakes winning filly out of a Rubiano mare, so the DT/Fappiano cross has worked at least once. My top pick on paper.

2. Honor Glide for $4000 at Bridlewood. He would give linebreeding to Missy Baba through her excellent son Raja Baba and daughter Lassie Dear; Somethingroyal via her sons Secretariat and Sir Gaylord; and Tom Rolfe via Hoist the Flag and Run the Gantlet. Miss Ardent's full sister Your Quote has an allowance-winning daughter by Belong to Me, another Danzig stallion.

3. Since you're in the $7500 range, you might shop around and see if you can get a deal for Exchange Rate ($10,000 at Padua), or get a partner.

And for breeding to race you won't go wrong with Skip Trial, also at Bridlewood (89% runners, 77% winners).

Thanks for the quick reply! Some great suggestions there. Do you put much value in the Werk nicks? I'll have to check her against these 3. We are breeding to sell, so thanks for making that distinction....

Here are some of my suggestions

1. Snow Ridge by Tobasco Cat-Snow Forest by Woodman
line breeding
Missy Baba 4x5 through Raja Baba and Sauceboat
Miss Disco 5x6x7 twice through Bold Ruler and once through Nasco
Mr. Prospector 4x4 through Fappiano and Woodman

Snow Ridge is off to a fast start at stud and he is at Padua

2. Full Mandate by A.P. Indy-Clear Mandate by Deputy Minister
line breeding Missy Baba 4x6 through Raja Baba and Gay Missile
line breeding Bold Ruler 4x5x6

Those are the two I would consider in Florida

Keith

I've seen Full Mandate "in person", and he is the type I like - good bone, good size... I'll have to check the others out at this year's stallion shows. Thanks again for the replies - right on the money with the type of info I was hoping for .

I like Kimberley Mine's top pick, Delaware Township, for your mare for a couple of different reasons.

Her Sire, Press Card, started his stud career here in Maryland, so I had the opportunity to see him and many of his get. He stamped them for the most part plain bay, tall, a bit coarse, somewhat crooked through the knees, and with a small, narrow foot. It was presumed that he would cross well with Northern Dancer line mares, being a Mr. P line stallion, so originally he bred a lot of those mares. This turned out to be a bad cross for him. With the Northern Dancer lines, he got many offsett/crooked foals, and they didn't run well. It turned out that he threw to the bottom of his pedigree, to Never Bend/War Admiral/ Teddy. His best runners combined Man O'War lines (In Reality, Tentam, Relic/Olden Times) with Turn-to and often had La Troienne (like Buckpasser). I would look for medium-size stallions that might offer some refinement for her, and avoid lines that might get offset knees. I think Delaware Township would bring the In Reality and refinement to the table, and I believe he is free of Northern Dancer.

Good luck, and please let us know who you select for her.

I checked Werk for miss Ardent and Delaware Township and she is an A+ (+1020%) to him with a Werk Quality rating of Q5 and 6 Quality Points based on the Raja Baba (4m x 3f), Tom Rolfe (4f x 5m) and Nasrullah (x 5m, 5m). He is definitely of interest, so thank you!

As for Full Mandate, based on what Cathy D said about Press Card, I'd be leary of that match. This mare is not coarse, but she is big. She is very correct with big feet, but I'd hate to send her to a horse that is already a bit plain and coarse (as I feel Full Mandate is).

I did Werk nick her to D'Wildcat and Wildcat Heir and she is an A++ (+4345%) to both of them with Secretariat, Bold Ruler, Northern Dancer, Raise a Native and Nasrullah crosses for D'Wildcat. Wildcat Heir does not have the Northern Dancer cross, so that may be the way to go to avoid the problems that Cathy D mentioned. Will have to look at him. He's $8,000, so maybe a bit high, but if we're really impressed with him.....

Do you set much store by Werk nicks? If not, what do you use the most?

witherbee wrote:Any ideas for our mare Miss Ardent? Here was her catalog page (we just bought her at the OBS mixed sale in Oct) http://www.obssales.com/octcatalog/2006/1470.PDF . She is currently in foal to Untuttable... Thanks in advance!

I like the idea of Exchange Rate, I also like Full Mandate.

I would like to offer 2 2nd year stallions, Alysweep(oops his 3 rd year) I bred to him and he is a solid well balanced horse. He stands at Lambholm for 3,500.00 but if you go to there stallion show and sign you will receive a good deal.

Next is One Nice Cat who is a son of Storm Cat. He has just moved to Double Diamond from Sequel Stallions. He is a nice looking colt , he bred 61 mares in his first year. He is not offered on Werks for free but I nicked your mare with him . By the GSV and she was a 62.58 when we buy mares in the sale we look to nick them over a 60.00

Good Luck Now I have to find one for my mare. lol...

Oh and on her page I remember Cottatge Garden when I was a groom my horse beat her but she really was a nice horse.

Witherbee,

I'm glad to hear that your mare did not inherit her sires knees, feet, or coarseness, but I would be very afraid that sending a mare whose sire had crooked knees to a Storm Cat line stallion, which are known to get offset knees, would likely result in crooked knees. Both D'Wildcat and Wildcat Heir are the Storm Cat branch of Northern Dancer. Somethingroyal, in Secretariat, was also supposed to have been offset. I like both stallions, but if I think I would prefer to see a few foals from the mare before trying that cross.

There has been a lot of in depth discussion about Werk ratings on this board. If you do a search, you'll be in a better position to assess the value of the ratings you received. The Werk rating methodology basically matches sire line to broodmare sireline. It does not consider the female parts of the pedigree. For a stallion like Press Card, that threw to his dam's side of the pedigree, the Werk rating could completely miss the point!

Myheartsezyes, we bred our Robin Dancer mare to Alysweep last year (expecting a Jan foal from her - her first foal). I saw his babies at the OBS sale and they were NICE. Sold pretty well too.... My husband worked in the stallion barn at Lambholm last year, so he is very familiar with all of their stallions. What is GSV?

Cathy D, I will definitely look up the Werks threads - I did realize that it was more sire based, and we definitley set a lot of store by the Dam side, so will follow up on that. This mare has had 3 foals - 3 to race, 2 winners. I do agree that we want to minimize the offeset knee possibility. Wildcat Heir did not have the Northern Dancer cross...

Glad we have time to decide - lots of research to do on her and our three other mares. Although we do have a free breeding to Freefourinternet and our mare, Witherbee Hall (Ide with Red Ransom on the dam's side), goes very well to him.

We also have a maiden mare named Not a Nice Girl - her 2nd dam is the dam of Lost Code. She should be interesting to match up. Here is her page for any that are interested - it's different! http://www.obssales.com/octcatalog/2006/936.PDF

witherbee wrote:Myheartsezyes, we bred our Robin Dancer mare to Alysweep last year (expecting a Jan foal from her - her first foal). I saw his babies at the OBS sale and they were NICE. Sold pretty well too.... My husband worked in the stallion barn at Lambholm last year, so he is very familiar with all of their stallions. What is GSV?

Cathy D, I will definitely look up the Werks threads - I did realize that it was more sire based, and we definitley set a lot of store by the Dam side, so will follow up on that. This mare has had 3 foals - 3 to race, 2 winners. I do agree that we want to minimize the offeset knee possibility. Wildcat Heir did not have the Northern Dancer cross...

Glad we have time to decide - lots of research to do on her and our three other mares. Although we do have a free breeding to Freefourinternet and our mare, Witherbee Hall (Ide with Red Ransom on the dam's side), goes very well to him.

We also have a maiden mare named Not a Nice Girl - her 2nd dam is the dam of Lost Code. She should be interesting to match up. Here is her page for any that are interested - it's different! http://www.obssales.com/octcatalog/2006/936.PDF

That is so great my mare is in foal to Alysweep as well and expecting 2nd week of January. I tried to buy the colt for my friend I really liked how he looked. He was rna at 6,000.00 but when I went back to the barn they had just sold him for 8,000.00. Also, looked at a filly consigned by Beth Beyer and she was reall skitish she only brought 2,500.00.

Regarding GSV you can read it here it is on the main page of Pedigree Query at the bottom. See if this link works
http://www.members.shaw.ca/thematchmaker/index3.html

Regarding GSV you can read it here it is on the main page of Pedigree Query at the bottom. See if this link works
http://www.members.shaw.ca/thematchmaker/index3.html

witherbee wrote:We also have a maiden mare named Not a Nice Girl - her 2nd dam is the dam of Lost Code. She should be interesting to match up. Here is her page for any that are interested - it's different! http://www.obssales.com/octcatalog/2006/936.PDF

I'm assuming you're also looking in Florida, same price range? If she's still in California, send her to either Bertrando (see below) or to Beau Genius for a full to a stakes winner.

If you are staying in Florida, take a look at Concerto. If you look at Not a Nice Girl's dam, you'll notice that she has a full sister who produced a stakes winning gelding by Bertrando and winners by either Bertrando or Relaunch. Relaunch blood is hard to find in Florida now that Slew Gin Fizz is gone, so his sire In Reality is another option. Concerto has a 3-time winning filly out of a Flying Continental mare. Concerto is improving his mares (even without Bellamy Road) and if you take out his 2yos, he is getting about 70% winners from foals.

witherbee,

Werk only recommends stallions whose owners have paid his extortion fee. His letter ratings are based on samples so small and irrelevant as to make the whole exercise a colossal waste of your time and money. In spite of their zero value, they may, however, give you some peace of mind. That is the mission of the Werk Nicks--to make you feel good.