Valid Expectation
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Jenny
- Restricted Stakes Winner
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- Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:15 pm
- Location: Ontario, Canada
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Valid Expectation
any ideas on VE as a broodmare sire. I have a nice mare called Beth's Expectation who was a real speedball. She ran for us and we loved her. Tried her heart out. made 65k. who would she cross nice with? would her foals be sale material. also have an obscure mare called I won't stop Dancing. good runner made 95k most of her pedigree is foriegn to me. any idea's. She just had a really nice Devil Begone colt.
Hi Jenny,
I'm guessing that you're in or near Canada because I remember Beth's Expectation from Fort Erie but I don't believe I remember Iwontstopdancing. You don’t give any specifics about their conformation and that would help.
Iwontstopdancing has, as you correctly say, a more obscure pedigree with little black-type. If you trace her female tail, her 5th dam is the extremely important mare, Missy Baba, who is the 4th dam of A.P. Indy. This is a very important female family but it's strengths haven't been leveraged in your line for some time. Her race record brought a smile because my mare, Tsakpina won the Centre Stage Anne in 2001 when it was still a black-type race.
She would be a breed to race mare with little commercial appeal. It would be a project to resurrect the family through her but there may be food for study in the family's history.
Beth's Expectation has more potential as a commercial broodmare, certainly at present. Her full sister, Beth's Appeal has produced SOY CONQUISTADOR, a SW in Puerto Rico by Sweetsouthernsaint. Her 4th dam is the good mare Nell-Girl and there's at least some black-type in every generation.
The value of Beth's Expectation foal will be based it's conformation and the commercial appeal of the stallion that you select. Canadian stallions, like Devil Begone, have little if any cache here in the States so you would do better selling them in Canada but the number of sales and price anticipation are limited.
Two young stallions that might have some commercial appeal in Canada are Niigon and Mobil. Their race records are Canadian and thus their appeal will be limited in the States. I’ve not seen Niigon and Mobil was light in the hip and long barreled. There are a host of reasonably priced race horse sires to choose from in Ontario as well.
Good luck,
Pete
I'm guessing that you're in or near Canada because I remember Beth's Expectation from Fort Erie but I don't believe I remember Iwontstopdancing. You don’t give any specifics about their conformation and that would help.
Iwontstopdancing has, as you correctly say, a more obscure pedigree with little black-type. If you trace her female tail, her 5th dam is the extremely important mare, Missy Baba, who is the 4th dam of A.P. Indy. This is a very important female family but it's strengths haven't been leveraged in your line for some time. Her race record brought a smile because my mare, Tsakpina won the Centre Stage Anne in 2001 when it was still a black-type race.
She would be a breed to race mare with little commercial appeal. It would be a project to resurrect the family through her but there may be food for study in the family's history.
Beth's Expectation has more potential as a commercial broodmare, certainly at present. Her full sister, Beth's Appeal has produced SOY CONQUISTADOR, a SW in Puerto Rico by Sweetsouthernsaint. Her 4th dam is the good mare Nell-Girl and there's at least some black-type in every generation.
The value of Beth's Expectation foal will be based it's conformation and the commercial appeal of the stallion that you select. Canadian stallions, like Devil Begone, have little if any cache here in the States so you would do better selling them in Canada but the number of sales and price anticipation are limited.
Two young stallions that might have some commercial appeal in Canada are Niigon and Mobil. Their race records are Canadian and thus their appeal will be limited in the States. I’ve not seen Niigon and Mobil was light in the hip and long barreled. There are a host of reasonably priced race horse sires to choose from in Ontario as well.
Good luck,
Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
Jenny -
In the for what it's worth category:
Taken from Eqineline stats at one of the many websites for VE as a stallion.
The reason I say FWIW is that VE is on the cusp of our finding out what sort of BM sire he might - or might not - become: the vast bulk of his daughters who raced and did well (a likely indicator of their ability to justify/attract good matings) may just be entering the breeding shed or having their first foals to race hit the track. On that note you might want to think about these statistics:
His female progeny have sold at auction as:
Weanlings 17 $463,700 $27,276 $22,000
Yearlings 61 $1,615,000 $26,475 $16,500
2 Year Olds 44 $1,534,700 $34,880 $29,000
Older Horses 3 $19,377 $6,459 $4,000
Broodmares 22 $903,800 $41,082 $15,500
(also excerpted from Equineline.com stats at his Stallion Register site)
As he stand here in Texas, we see a lot of the VEs at the sales and as a group they are always finely chiseled invidiuals - very attractive if a bit small - I can say I've never heard of nor seen a "rangey" VE foal. They are very typey as to how well knit they are made so hopefully if he passes that on thru his daughters you will get a good looker. I would venture a guess that a 'typical' VE daughter could use a stallion that throws some substance/size into his foals but not a gi-normous individual by any means. Just a stallion that can add to an already attractive physique and certainly not one that will 'downsize' your mare's contribution. As a regionally based stallion that has enjoyed HUGE support by his connections VE has done his share of producing runners and winners from runners - many at the allowance levels and with decent earnings but overall he is shy in producing top level winners/performers so I would look for a stallion that has that potential - i.e. to produce the 'big one' as well, after conformational match/running attributes match has been taken into consideration.
Personally, I think he has the potential to be a better than average BM sire b/c of his own female family being such a strong one. That and the fact that a good number of his fillies - like yours - have done well enough at the track as runners. Both traits - IMO - hint at the possibility of VE being a decent BM sire, but it will take another couple of years before we'll really know. Good luck with your mare!
In the for what it's worth category:
Valid Expectations is the sire of 26 dams of 23 foals, 8 rnrs (34%), 6 wnrs (26%), 0 2yo wnrs (0%), .86 AEI, 1.51 CI; 0 sw, Leading Earner: Believeinmenow ($75,961).
Taken from Eqineline stats at one of the many websites for VE as a stallion.
The reason I say FWIW is that VE is on the cusp of our finding out what sort of BM sire he might - or might not - become: the vast bulk of his daughters who raced and did well (a likely indicator of their ability to justify/attract good matings) may just be entering the breeding shed or having their first foals to race hit the track. On that note you might want to think about these statistics:
His female progeny have sold at auction as:
Weanlings 17 $463,700 $27,276 $22,000
Yearlings 61 $1,615,000 $26,475 $16,500
2 Year Olds 44 $1,534,700 $34,880 $29,000
Older Horses 3 $19,377 $6,459 $4,000
Broodmares 22 $903,800 $41,082 $15,500
(also excerpted from Equineline.com stats at his Stallion Register site)
As he stand here in Texas, we see a lot of the VEs at the sales and as a group they are always finely chiseled invidiuals - very attractive if a bit small - I can say I've never heard of nor seen a "rangey" VE foal. They are very typey as to how well knit they are made so hopefully if he passes that on thru his daughters you will get a good looker. I would venture a guess that a 'typical' VE daughter could use a stallion that throws some substance/size into his foals but not a gi-normous individual by any means. Just a stallion that can add to an already attractive physique and certainly not one that will 'downsize' your mare's contribution. As a regionally based stallion that has enjoyed HUGE support by his connections VE has done his share of producing runners and winners from runners - many at the allowance levels and with decent earnings but overall he is shy in producing top level winners/performers so I would look for a stallion that has that potential - i.e. to produce the 'big one' as well, after conformational match/running attributes match has been taken into consideration.
Personally, I think he has the potential to be a better than average BM sire b/c of his own female family being such a strong one. That and the fact that a good number of his fillies - like yours - have done well enough at the track as runners. Both traits - IMO - hint at the possibility of VE being a decent BM sire, but it will take another couple of years before we'll really know. Good luck with your mare!
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Jenny
- Restricted Stakes Winner
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- Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:15 pm
- Location: Ontario, Canada
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Thanks guys! It is always amazing how you find all of this info. I really do not have the time to pour over pedigrees and even if I did I don't know what I am looking for. We breed to race, but would like to sell in the regional market for Woodbine. and yes, Pete, We are in Southern Ontario. We raced both of those mares and some others. I also have a nice mare Harvest Singing made 142K? just got her. Pete, those stallions you chose are nice but $8500 for Mobil is out of my price range, esp. when you have a number to breed. We went with Gone Fishin. You might remember him from NY. like his pedigree and longevity, size and confirmation. Nice female family, young sisters already starting to produce runners. ie Shipman and RUNNING LASS. He is getting a few quite good mares and very good owners so hopefully they will have a decent shot at running. That makes all the difference I think when standing a new stud!! I forgot to mention I am also the owner of GF. 
I am quite pleased with I won't stop dancings' pedigree now that you told me that. I think that she must embody those traits since she is Alybenbo"s most winningest runner!! She is big 16.1+ and lovely with powerfull hind quarters. and good confirmation. Beth is only 15.2+ but about 3 feet wide with a huge backend. i understand Beth's mother also earned a few $. I could go on and on about all my mares but I will stop now. Your input is much appreciated.
I am quite pleased with I won't stop dancings' pedigree now that you told me that. I think that she must embody those traits since she is Alybenbo"s most winningest runner!! She is big 16.1+ and lovely with powerfull hind quarters. and good confirmation. Beth is only 15.2+ but about 3 feet wide with a huge backend. i understand Beth's mother also earned a few $. I could go on and on about all my mares but I will stop now. Your input is much appreciated.Hi Jenny,
Did you receive a PM from me?
You asked about Beth's Expectation potential as a commercial mare and Niigon and Mobil are two of the few Canadian sires that might have some market appeal.
I know Harvest Singing well. Raced against her a few times. She's a hard knocking mare.
I'd take Iwontstopdancing to Gone Fishin, it's a good mating and well suited to the all weather tracks.
Regards,
Pete
Did you receive a PM from me?
You asked about Beth's Expectation potential as a commercial mare and Niigon and Mobil are two of the few Canadian sires that might have some market appeal.
I know Harvest Singing well. Raced against her a few times. She's a hard knocking mare.
I'd take Iwontstopdancing to Gone Fishin, it's a good mating and well suited to the all weather tracks.
Regards,
Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
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Rokeby Forever
- Darley line
- Posts: 6684
- Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:52 pm
- Location: Reno, NV
It's always interesting to read Pete give mating advice, which is usually right on the mark. The problem is that it's like listening to Dr Ruth give mating advice. LOL!
What synthetics are to California racing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
Hi Rokeby,
Thanks for the backhanded compliment.
How did you know that I'm a diminutive woman with a squeaky, Germanic accent?
I suggest that you stop listening to all that xxx farm animal audio (thank god there's no video) and it won't seem so dry. Actually, when it's your mare you don't tire of the subject.
Regards,
Pete
Thanks for the backhanded compliment.
How did you know that I'm a diminutive woman with a squeaky, Germanic accent?
I suggest that you stop listening to all that xxx farm animal audio (thank god there's no video) and it won't seem so dry. Actually, when it's your mare you don't tire of the subject.
Regards,
Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
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geowarrior
- Leading Sire
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tinners way
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