to breed or not to breed; that is the question

[foothillsequine]

Filly by Benchmark, out of Queen of the Nile--unraced. As you all are very expert, I would like advice as to whether or not to breed this gal next year? Is her femail line strong enough to support her being unraced? Any advice is welcomed! Thanks.

[foothillsequine]

Female not femail...

[fastappy]

You will get many different answers with most of them being negative in regard to breeding based on the fact that the mare in question does not have any siblings with black type, and only one winner of one race, among them.

In my opinion because her dam is half to a decent stakes horse and being by Benchmark, I would reluctantly consider it if the mare has good size and conformation and you plan to race. If I did choose to throw caution to the wind, I would take the mare to a stallion that you know could get quality runners consistently, so you can get a fair assessment of her producing ability.

However, there are far more potential mares with better credentials than her that are being given away or sold cheaply. You can also acquire a mare in foal to a good stallion and have far less expenses and perhaps better success. Breeding that mare is a long term (3-4 years at the very least) project. Always start with best going in, don't compromise simply because she was unable to race and decide to breed instead.

Here's her immediately family record. Best Wishes!


Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2007


QUEEN OF THE NILE, 1995, Chief's Crown- Diviningrod by Alleged.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1999 Storm Of The Nile,Dkbbr,f,Future Storm 2 7 1 0 1 7,750 ( 69) 0.36
North America 2 YO Record 5 1 0 1 6,950 ( 64)
North America Dirt Sprints 6 1 0 1 7,350 ( 69)
North America Dirt Routes 1 0 0 0 400 ( 61)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 0 0 0 400 ( 69)
DP = 3-5-6-4-0 DI = 1.57 CD = 0.39 AWD = 4.50
2000 Nanogen,Dk B/,g,Dr. Caton 1 5 0 0 0 1,090 ( 64) 0.06
North America 2 YO Record 5 0 0 0 1,090 ( 64)
North America Dirt Sprints 3 0 0 0 480 ( 63)
North America Dirt Routes 2 0 0 0 610 ( 64)
DP = 8-4-8-0-0 DI = 4.00 CD = 1.00
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
BESOCT 2001 0225 $4,000 $9,150 ylg (10/12) $5,000
2001 Unnamed,f,Event Of The Year
DP = 11-4-11-0-0 DI = 3.73 CD = 1.00
2002 Unnamed,c,Midnight Foxtrot (Gb)
DP = 6-4-8-0-0 DI = 3.50 CD = 0.89
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
BESJAN 2003 0680 $1,000 $2,000 ylg ( 2/ 2) NA
2003 Queen's Prince,B,g,Paxos
DP = 6-4-10-0-0 DI = 3.00 CD = 0.80
2004 Queensmark,B,f,Benchmark Unraced
DP = 7-7-16-0-0 DI = 2.75 CD = 0.70
SIRE 1.79 Spi, 174str, 39%2yo, 16%1st, 15%Mud/201sts, 12%Tf/208sts, AWD 6.6
DAM(up) 0.21 Dpi, 2 2yostr/1wnr, 0%Mud/2sts, 0 Tfstr/0wnr, 2 Rtestr/0wnr, AWD 4.5
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
BESNOV 2005 0114 $1,000 $11,053 ylg (30/30) $2,000
==============================================
Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2007


DIVININGROD, 1980, Alleged- Winding Water by Drone.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1984 Juliet's Divine,B,f,Romeo 3 24 2 9 4 37,524 1.52
North America 2 YO Record 1 0 0 1 495
North America Turf Record 4 0 1 1 4,225
North America Dirt Sprints 5 0 2 1 2,490
North America Dirt Routes 15 2 6 2 30,809
North America Muddy/Sloppy 4 0 2 0 1,995
DP = 4-11-4-0-1 DI = 5.67 CD = 0.85 AWD = 8.16
1986 LITTLE CASINO,Dkbbr,c,Well Decorated 5 28 10 7 4 135,891 (103) 4.92
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 300 ( 83)
North America Dirt Sprints 27 10 7 4 135,591 (103)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 1 0 1 6,840 ( 98)
DP = 12-5-4-0-1 DI = 6.33 CD = 1.23 AWD = 6.05
At 7 Won Northern Wolf Handicap (O) (40,000)
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEEJAN 1987 804 $25,000 $48,646 ylg (19/32) NA
HIAFEB 1988 21 $28,000 $28,600 2yo ( 6/12) NA
1987 Slipped
1988 Alleged Prospect,B,f,Tank's Prospect Unraced
DP = 11-5-15-0-1 DI = 2.76 CD = 0.78
1989 Western Accent,Dkbbr,f,Well Decorated 4 35 3 3 3 28,073 ( 84) 0.69
North America Dirt Sprints 28 3 2 2 24,785 ( 82)
North America Dirt Routes 7 0 1 1 3,288 ( 84)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 6 0 0 0 1,288 ( 71)
DP = 12-5-4-0-1 DI = 6.33 CD = 1.23 AWD = 6.33
1990 Unnamed,f,Woodman
DP = 10-6-15-0-1 DI = 2.76 CD = 0.75
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEESEP 1991 1467 $12,000 $128,483 ylg (29/29) $15,000
1991 Limo Lady,Dkbbr,f,Mining
DP = 10-6-15-0-1 DI = 2.76 CD = 0.75
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEESEP 1992 1632 $22,000 $30,200 ylg (15/20) $15,000
1992 Barren
1993 Static Discharge,Dkbbr,f,Explodent 2 18 3 3 1 37,272 ( 85) 1.19
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 142 ( 66)
North America Dirt Sprints 17 3 3 1 37,130 ( 85)
DP = 5-5-7-0-1 DI = 3.00 CD = 0.72 AWD = 6.17
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEENOV 1993 1177 $18,000 $21,583 wlg ( 4/ 6) $10,000
1994 Divining Mining,Dkbbr,c,Mining 3 8 0 0 2 6,489 ( 79) 0.44
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 0 ( 51)
North America Dirt Sprints 6 0 0 2 5,769 ( 77)
North America Dirt Routes 1 0 0 0 720 ( 79)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 600 ( 64)
DP = 10-6-15-0-1 DI = 2.76 CD = 0.75
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEESEP 1995 2199 $16,000 $47,041 ylg (42/54) $10,000
1995 Queen Of The Nile,Dkbbr,f,Chief's Crown 1 1 0 0 0 0 ( 34) 0.00
North America 2 YO Record 1 0 0 0 0 ( 34)
North America Dirt Sprints 1 0 0 0 0 ( 34)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 0 ( 34)
DP = 5-10-12-0-1 DI = 3.00 CD = 0.64
1996 Wabash Cannon Ball,Dkbbr,c,Pine Bluff 1 1 0 0 0 675 ( 72) 0.27
North America Dirt Sprints 1 0 0 0 675 ( 72)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 675 ( 72)
DP = 6-7-14-0-1 DI = 2.50 CD = 0.61
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
TEXMAR 1998 529 $23,000 $54,833 2yo ( 5/ 6) $15,000

[foothillsequine]

I thank you very much for your candid opinion. The information you have provided is both prolific and helpful. I am looking for a good mare with a good pedigree to breed that is not too expensive.

[larrygene]

foothills, we all are looking for that inexpensive "blue hen"!!! Hope you and I both find her!!

Larrygene

[foothillsequine]

No kidding! I will let you know when I find her!

[zinn21]

Larrygene said, "foothills, we all are looking for that inexpensive "blue hen"!!! Hope you and I both find her!! "

I thought I found mine the other day. Come to find out the name used for the mare in the advertisement was a nickname that just happened to be the the name of a stakes producing mare born the same year as the advertised nicknamed one.
I'm just about to get her vet checked when the seller and I discover we're talking about two different mares.

If it's too good to be true it generally is.

[foothillsequine]

I suppose the good news is that you discovered the error prior to purchase. Due diligence is important. Good luck in your search.

[foothillsequine]

I suppose the good news is that you discovered the error prior to purchase. Due diligence is important. Good luck in your search.

[habitat]

QUEENSMARK (USA) b. F, 2004 DP = 7-11-16-4-0 (38) DI = 2.17 CD = 0.55 - GSV = 70.80

I would be interested in George W Smith's opinion of this mare since her GSV is at 70. With 70 GSV this mare should be winning G1s in California. Is she injured, not competitive, no funds to put her in training?

I understand that GSV is just a number, a tool, but would be interested in how George applies the number in specific examples and in this case if a mare has any potential as a broodmare.

[foothillsequine]

Good points. No she is not injured, she does toe out in front but not enough to stop her from racing. She has a fearsome dispostion (although I get along with her just fine), but I think the folks who had her didn't quite know what to do with her. She is not a large horse, about 15.2, 15.3 and is quite lovely. As for racing....I would love to get her on the track but need to develop some racing partnerships to do so. Hence the question--should I or should I not breed...

[George William Smith]

Queensmark has a GSV1 of 71.70; a GSV2 of 73.95. The mating has an UP score of 2.50 and this is as high as it goes so the mating is a upgrading for Benchmark. Adding the UP score of 2.50 to to the GSV2 score of 73.95, which gives a GSV score of 76.45.

You can find how those values are derived at my tutorial page on the web:
http://www.members.shaw.ca/thematchmaker

Mares with such high scores are a good shot at being a terrific broodmare.

However, that said, the scores are based on getting an average amount of the good stuff from the horses in the pedigree and often this does not happen. I note that this mare sold 30/30 of the Benchmark's in 2005 so she is not good looking or impressive at that stage of life.

I also note that there is a cross of the very good sire and broodmare sire Drone close up in the pedigree and though excellent he most definitely throws unsoundness into the foals if not mated correctly.

So if you breed her, you must be trying like crazy to get a good-looking foal that is athletic. Usually you can not do this with a $1000 stud fee....in my experience, it will fail 99 out of 100 tries and fail badly. The high GSV will be useless unless you are willing to pay for a stud fee of a stallion that throws good looking foals that pay their way on the track. That is the right way to use a mare with a GSV score that is this high.

[foothillsequine]

Thanks so much George! So, in your opinion who would be the best sire line to mate her with? We will pretend that money is no object..

[GreenThumb]

Take a look at Lite the Fuse for this mare.

[springboro]

Larrygene said, "foothills, we all are looking for that inexpensive "blue hen"!!! Hope you and I both find her!! "

I thought I found mine the other day. Come to find out the name used for the mare in the advertisement was a nickname that just happened to be the the name of a stakes producing mare born the same year as the advertised nicknamed one.
I'm just about to get her vet checked when the seller and I discover we're talking about two different mares.

If it's too good to be true it generally is.

LOL.. that's two of us then. I was gonna get the mare listed as Cheeky Monkey in the upper ads... .the one by Beau Genius. Turns out the woman who owns her liked that nickname and even after I mentioned the confusion, still lists her that way.

JEEEEZ