Pedigree Query

katryna's Reign and Place Warning. What do you think??

Nope.

Not commercially but I love the old pedigrees...I would go with a speedy Raise A Native line stallion. I also really like Reign Road who is Katryna's sire.

What's your location? How far are you willing to travel? What's the price range?

Place Warning's pedigree seems to have some black type and some soundness. She might go well with Weshaam whose stud fee is $1K. I see you were looking at Evangelism who was advertised at $750. Weshaam and some others stand at Taylor Mountain www.taylormountainfarm.com. Katryna's Reign's sire Reign Road is not a successful sire and someone said he passes on calf knees to his offspring. I do not know if she should be bred but I see she does have foals. My mare's oldest Twinkle Toz raced at Charles Town last year and is sired by Our Valley View. Do you happen to know what happened to her?

soundfast wrote:Place Warning's pedigree seems to have some black type and some soundness. She might go well with Weshaam whose stud fee is $1K. I see you were looking at Evangelism who was advertised at $750. Weshaam and some others stand at Taylor Mountain www.taylormountainfarm.com. Katryna's Reign's sire Reign Road is not a successful sire and someone said he passes on calf knees to his offspring. I do not know if she should be bred but I see she does have foals. My mare's oldest Twinkle Toz raced at Charles Town last year and is sired by Our Valley View. Do you happen to know what happened to her?

No I have not seen anything of her. Katryna's Reign had 2 colts one by Our Valley view and one by Runaway Macho both were sold privatelay and were shipped by Mersants to Dubai. She is not calf kneed. One of the other mares in the previous posting had a Runaway Macho colt and he too went to Dubai on the same flight. I don't know but Rashed liked something about those mares. No one else seems to. I guess I need to look for some better ones. They are all over the place. Thanks for the respnonse.

krp wrote:What's your location? How far are you willing to travel? What's the price range?

These mare have marginal pedigrees at best. I think 5,000 is absolutely top. I have considered Country Only for Place Warning. She makes absolutely incredible babies correct as they can be.
I am in Maryland.

madelyn wrote:Nope.

Thanks again Madeline. Your honesty is killing me, but I like it.

I am sentimentally attached to Reign Road so I let that cloud my judgement but if you are breeding to race I still think they are OK mares. If you are looking to purchase a mare please PM or email me...I have about 20 for sale some with foals at their side, some bred for 09 and some open.

So the foal would be entitled to both MD and WV monies!!! It would be nice to see MD get slots. A friend of mine in Galena, MD has a yearling by Country Only. He is gorgeous!! She has a couple foals this year also. I saw pictures of them on her website and I hope to see them this summer in person. My friends website is www.charterfarms.com. She really likes Country Only.

Sorry for the brevity. The question, I think, was are these mares "Commercial" which translates in my world to "Can I Breed these mares to good stallions and make money selling the foals?"

In my world, the answer would still be "nope."

A COMMERCIAL mare is one whose base market value is three to four times the price of the stud fee for the stallion you breed her to. That is what gives your foal good catalog position at the sales. It costs so much to just raise the foal, sales prep it, put it through the sale, etc., that you need about that same amount of money in market leverage which comes from the conformation and quality of the foal and the CATALOG PAGE.

Looking purely from a business standpoint, even if you have your own farm you still have costs. Hay prices are double to triple what they were last year with no end in sight, and grain has also doubled. With everything in, it costs me at least $6-7K a year for two years to raise a yearling without considering the cost of the land itself. Prepping myself, it still costs $4-6K to put one through Keeneland. That gives me a "floor" of up to $20K to recover. These numbers are new, because the fuel, hay and grain prices are new. It used to be closer to $4K a year, so the floor was much lower. You can't do that with a $2,000 mare and a $5000 stud fee. Wait until the energy costs really hit, after this year's crop (farmers use diesel!) and trickle into electric bills, etc. We might see a period of inflation in America just like in the 70's (the last major energy crisis).

When you analyze a stallion who stands for, say, $6K and the farm TRUMPETS that his foals have sold for three times his fee (not ALL of them mind you, just a few), what is the breeder actually getting back? $12K? After you've slogged through two winters dragging hay, grain and hoses, cleaning mud off uncooperative babies, paid all the grain and hay costs, the help, the vet, the farrier, registration, nominations, etc. etc. you might have enough money left for a cup of coffee? Profitable? Nope.

madelyn,

good points(depressing but good), more people should consider these thoughts when contemplating a mating.

love my horses,
But !!
I second Madelyn's thoughts
very hard to make a profit
even with breeders money
cathyd

Thanks for all your help. So back to the drawing board. what do you think of this mare? Big Deal would I be moving in the right direction?

If Big Deal is the '96 Personal Flag model, that's more like it. Still $5K max fee though. What state are you in?