who should I breed to !!!

[stcath95]

Broodmare:-Phone Alex
Stallion: Devil His Due-$5000 or Stage Colony-$500
plan to breed within next ten days..your input appreciated..breeding to race

[ratherrapid]

My answer would be neither. BUT if the choice boils down to the two listed and you can afford the $5000.00 The Devil is the no-brainer in terms of getting a race horse. Why? Nice conformation (except questionable pasterns that you must take into account), very decent stats for the price.

Stage Colony appears to be sway back of which I'd be wary, but, otherwise very nice conformation, and good race record! While I'd be ok with breeding to SC seems to me there are so many better possibilities. The aim here would be i assume a Pleasant Colony line horse, and with that I'd be quite ok.

Now, your mare is an entirely different story as she seems to take obscure breeding to a new level. Assuming she has nice (and racy) conformation i'd be ok with $5000 for a stud fee. If she's in any way the non-athlete I'd save the bother.

Trying to fathom her pedigree, this is even old timey obscure. I see some Caro ancestry, Man o War Ancestry, and of course Forli and Owen Tudor. I'd picture a slimmer, bigger horse. Either sire seems acceptable but I'd think Devil His Due as one of the nicer ones, might be a more likely prospect for racing.

[madelyn]

Neither. In terms of Graded stakes winners out of Tirol mares, or Thatch mares, there is an overwhelming percentage from Northern Dancer line stallions. Perhaps look at a son of Danzig or something with a concentration of Northern Dancer through Nijinsky, Nureyev or Lyphard. If you want to breed a race horse...

[CosMos]

Pedigree wise, the better of the two at a very quick look is Devil His Due. Brings in lines of Mahmoud, Nasrullah and Royal Charger to reinforce the number 9c lines in Phone Alex, particularly Lady Juror and Nasrullah. There is a good amount of crossing Hyperion with Nasrullah (Nearco/Pharos) going on in the mare and would have liked to see more Hyperion added.

Phone Alex is also tail female to 16c family member Concertina who is reinforced by Devil His Due's lines of Plucky Liege's sons Sir Gallahad III, Admiral Drake and Bull Dog (twice). Sir G. III and Bull Dog work particularly well with Nearco's dam Nogara.

[kimberley mine]

If you're willing to spend $5000, go to Horse Chestnut.

The mating doubles up on the full siblings Thatch and Special and on the classy speed influence Grey Sovereign.

I don't know if Horse Chestnut has any foals who double up to Special and Thatch as Thatch is uncommon in the US, but his sire Fort Wood has a group-winning filly whose 2nd dam is by a grandson of Thatch.

Phone Alex also has quite a lot of Owen Tudor, another strain that has had success with Fort Wood. The most common strain of Owen Tudor in South Africa is Foveros; Fort Wood has a Gr-1 and Gr-3 winner out of a Foveros mare and a Gr-3 placed foal whose 2nd dam was by Foveros' sire Averof.

The two also have quite a few strains in common that should reinforce one another--Sister Sarah, Hurry On, Gainesway, and Son-In-Law that are uncommon in US pedigrees.

[GreenThumb]

I like the Danzig mentioned earlier.
Read this, then hypo your mare with Holy Bull

http://thoroughbredadvisor.com/archived ... e=stallion

[GreenThumb]

Better yet....

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php? ... p=0&f=1&l=

Clean and neat with a cross to Abernant in the 5th!

[kimberley mine]

Holy Bull is out of the original poster's budget, and aside from those mentioned, his best crosses hands down have been with Blushing Groom descendents. After Confessional, he was sent a good many Green Dancer-line mares, none of whom came close to Confessional. He has one foal out of a Blushing Groom mare and maybe 4 out of Mt Livermore mares, and from them, he has 2 Gr-1 winners. This is an inherited affinity from Great Above/Dr Fager.

[GreenThumb]

Hi,

And Blushing Groom carries Tudor Minstrel and Nasrullah.
Which is along the LAdy Josephine mentioned in the article posted.

I am not aware of the effinity you mention with Great Above and Dr Fager, could you elaborate please....just never looked at that one

Thanks

[Coquinerie]

It's also worth mentioning Holy Bull's best have been complete outcrosses for 5 generations, as a general rule. I always skip a Holy Bull at a sale that has any inbreeding within 5.

As an aside, the affinity KimberleyMine points out is even broader when discussing Tartan lines in general. They almost always seem to want more of themselves and have been very successful when getting it.

[stcath95]

Thanks

[Sam]

Better yet....

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php? ... p=0&f=1&l=

Clean and neat with a cross to Abernant in the 5th!

DON'T DO THAT!

Come on guys, it's one thing to do it for yourself then delete it within minutes, but those things go in then get forgotten and no one knows they're there until someone runs a progeny report on the parents and (maybe) notices the duplicate.

[Elles]

Now, your mare is an entirely different story as she seems to take obscure breeding to a new level. Assuming she has nice (and racy) conformation i'd be ok with $5000 for a stud fee. If she's in any way the non-athlete I'd save the bother.

Trying to fathom her pedigree, this is even old timey obscure. I see some Caro ancestry, Man o War Ancestry, and of course Forli and Owen Tudor. I'd picture a slimmer, bigger horse. Either sire seems acceptable but I'd think Devil His Due as one of the nicer ones, might be a more likely prospect for racing.

Well there is some life in the female family: http://www.tattersalls.ie/sales/dec2005/00000171.pdf
So it is not terribly obscure.

http://breeding.bloodhorse.com/article/40740.htm

[kimberley mine]

She's the best of her family for several generations, but her female line is getting consistent winners.

I think she'd do well with Sky Classic as well, but he's out of the OP's price range.