Pedigree Query

We have two mares we are going to be breeding next season, Doo Woppa Do and Impulsive (by Dynaformer), and both are big, strong types that could use an infusion of speed. They just don't write enough races for these types anymore! Anyway, since both carry Dynaformer close up, I have some ideas that could work for either, but I'd love if anyone has some ideas that might help me settle on something. Some of the names I've had in mind are:

City Zip (or some other introduction of Carson City)

Songandaprayer (who has looked to me to be one of the most pure speed sires around right now)

Roman Ruler/El Corredor (for the introduction of Silver Deputy line)

Both mares are going to be put into the NY-bred program, if that matters at all, but the plan is to breed them in KY. I'd like to stay under 20k (I know fees aren't out for next year yet, but we can work off the current ones), and obviously bang for the buck doesn't hurt.

You guys have been a great help in the past, so I figured I'd try my luck again. Thanks for any ideas you can offer!

Justin

I like Offlee Wild with Do. RF to Andover Way. Don't know if the speed is enough.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php? ... lor=000000

I like Belong to Me with Impulsive. Again the question may be speed.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php? ... IMPULSIVE9

With Impulsive, you might go straight to Freud.

The Storm Cat/Gone West cross has had decent success, most notably with champion Speightstown and Gr 1 winner Frost Giant (by Giant's Causeway), and also the good runner Indian Ocean. If you like G-1 Goldmine, this cross has a VGS of 8.86--massive strike rate compared to opportunity. Even allowing for small sample size error, that's good stuff.

kimberley mine wrote:With Impulsive, you might go straight to Freud.

I'm not big on making suggestions for mares I can't see physically, but that was my immediate thought as well. The linebreeding is terrific and ties in all the components of the pedigree and there isn't a more consistent sire for the New York region, either.

Not a KY stallion but Bop is pure speed. set three track records at 5 furlongs and tied the world record during the PA Governor's cup..

I've noticed that about 50% the top KY stallions get to race ever win a race which is bout the same for . Mid Atlantic stallions

griff

I started looking at Doo Woppa Do with the obvious choices...Danzig and sons of Mr P over Buckpasser mares, and rapidly diverged into the not-so-obvious. Sorry this is so long-winded, as I was typing pretty much what I found as I did the research.

1. Langfuhr. Proven miler speed, works with just about any bloodline around but seems to like extra Northern Dancer, has two blacktype runners this year with Roberto (one w/Kris S and one w/Red Ransom). Dirt or turf, long or short. Has a very good winner bred similarly to Doo Woppa Do: http://www.pedigreequery.com/travel+city2 As a bonus, if you get a filly, he's a much better than average broodmare sire.

2. Belong to Me. Also very consistent, miler speed, and an above average broodmare sire. Of the two, I think Langfuhr is the better stallion (more starters, more winners, more SW, higher earnings)...however, B2M isn't that far behind, and stands for $10,000 less.

3. Petionville. This guy is a straight-up racehorse sire, with 82% runners and earnings in line with Belong to Me. If you run him through TrueNicks this gets a D, but in this case I wouldn't worry too much--El Prado has 12 foals in the database who are older than 3, five of whom earned more than $100k. Medaglia D'Oro has a Gr-1 winner out of a STG mare, so that reverse cross is also working in limited attempts. What is a concern is that most of Petionville's best runners have a cross to Seattle Slew in there, which DWD does not.

4. The next one is a little out of the box, not to mention a little out of your price range...More Than Ready. He's throwing speed, and especially early speed. He's also thrown the winners of the 12f Victoria Derby, the 9f Canadian Stakes, and the 8.5f Fantasy Stakes, so he's not just a one-dimensional speedster.

What's really interesting about MTR, aside from some very good stats and the fact that he's done good things with all kinds of mares by all kinds of stallions, is his damline: he's out of a Woodman mare out of a Naskra mare. There's your classic-bred Mr P, but with Naskra you get a relatively uncommon bloodline that has been very fruitful with both El Prado and Dynaformer. (Medaglia D'Oro has one foal out of a Naskra mare, who is racing in Russia.) El Prado has several winners out of Naskra-line mares, including one who won over $500,000. Dynaformer has it even better--4 graded stakes winners with Naskra within 4 generations, including Perfect Drift and Purim and millionaire Mystery Giver. If his fee drops into your price range, or you can get a share or a season to him, definitely have a look.

5. And now to go even further outside the box: Darley resident geezers Quiet American and Holy Bull and Adena rising star Macho Uno.

Medaglia d'Oro and El Prado both have this thing for horses bred similarly to Dr. Fager--Rachel Alexandra is out of a granddaughter to Cure the Blues; El Prado is 11 for 16 out of mares by Holy Bull, Great Above, Housebuster, and Quiet American, including a millionaire, two who won over $700k, and 2 who won over $250k. Wow. For his part, Dynaformer is 9 for 13 out of mares by Dr Fager or Dr Blum, including a Gr-1 winner, a horse who was 2nd in the BC Juvie, and 5 more who won more than $110k. His foals out of Holy Bull mares are 3 and 2, and out of 4 foals out of 2 different QA mares, one is unraced, one is 3, one is 2, and the other is a nonwinner.

Of those three--Quiet American, Holy Bull, and Macho Uno, I'd probably go for QA, as he'll be 25 next year. He's good at siring sound, hard-trying, hard-knocking horses who like to run and like to win. If you get a filly, you're in the cream for a broodmare prospect.

(edited to fix typos)

First of all, thanks to everyone for the suggestions!

Kimberley, you've always had good ideas and Langfuhr was actually fairly high on my list. I like the Danzig cross and as you say, he does get a lot of flat out runners. The family could use that type of sire I think since DWD's family (as mentioned before) has been a little too plodder-like close up.

I actually really like MTR as a sire and in fact have done a lot of looking at his foals in the upcoming sale. We got a hell of a first-hand look at his filly, More Than Real when she ran against our filly Sunlight Sonata at Saratoga a few weeks ago. While the race may have been a mile and a sixteenth, this was a 2yo filly who looked like she handled it great, so at least they are coming along early even if not sprinter types necessarily. That's a plus for me. We can do the stud fee, though my hesitation is whether it's over-breeding for this mare a bit.

I guess the question I have, for anyone interested in answering and you as well Kimberley, is if you put down the full fee or at least something close to it, do you think it's overkill for her? I love DWD's pedigree and she is a winner in only 4 starts after we got her, but she was something like 0-11 before she made her way to us. I guess having an MTR NY-bred might be worth it?

With Impulsive, I actually really like the Freud idea, and if his stud fee stays around where it is, I think the combination of the two stud fees (if we were to use MTR) might be reasonable for across the two broodmares.

To whether More Than Ready is overbreeding Doo Woppa Do--well, yes and no. On the one hand, she's not a super-strong winner, and her dam's production has been weak compared to the rest of the family. On the other hand, I think that More Than Ready is overpriced for the north American market, and thus it's not necessarily overbreeding (especially if you can negotiate with Vinery).

He's in the same price bracket as Candy Ride, Exchange Rate, Stormy Atlantic, Lemon Drop Kid, and Speightstown--at that level, you expect to see Gr-1 production, and so far all of MTR's Gr-1 winners (and the majority of his other graded winners) are in Australia. Drop him down a bracket and he's in with Langfuhr, Quiet American, Successful Appeal, El Corredor, Yes It's True, and Mizzen Mast....I think he's much more competitive in here, and wouldn't be surprised to see him move into this bracket.

All of that said: you do know that he's proven in adding speed, proven in adding precocity, and proven in working with just about every bloodline you can think of. I personally wouldn't at $30k, especially not with Quiet American, Langfuhr, and Holy Bull for about half that or less. At $20k--he's a lot more attractive.

I'd be tempted to go with Hard Spun with the Doo Woppa mare.