Pedigree Query

Which stallions would you select for her and why?

First off, I would look for one who is not overly large, but not too small. Were he still standing, for example, I wouldn't put her to Rahy.

If she were mine and we were staying in the US, Giant's Causeway for sure.

There is more for her, I think, in Europe. The bloodlines she'll really excel with are mostly gone in this country...Grey Sovereign, Sharpen Up, etc.

Of the euros, Danehill Dancer, Selkirk, and Pivotal immediately come to mind.

Between the Fair Trail (via Petition) on her sire's side and Roberto on her dam's side, Danzig will really let her shine. Also, Roberto absolutely loves Bois Roussel, which is carried through Sharpen Up, which is why Danehill Dancer is high on the list. Danehill and Street Cry have combined down under for some very good stakes horses, including Melbourne Cup winner Shocking.

Pivotal is a bit different. Northern Dancer, of course, and a return of Forli, but also he has Cozzene on the dam line. Cozzene loves son strains of Ribot, and Zenyatta has two strains of Hoist the Flag. There's also linebreeding to Princequillo there, but with the Polar Falcon on top enough speed to keep the foal from being an outright plodder.

Back in the USA, if his fertility permits, In Excess would bring the speed she lacks, without sacrificing any class.

I would breed her to A. P. Indy. He's not overly big, and this cross would produce a foal with a dosage profile of 6-11-21-0-0, a dosage index of 2.62, and center of distribution of +0.61. Some inbreeding to Bold Ruler, Hail to Reason, and Princequillo.

Very nice/insightful assessment, kimberley mine!!

I would be most concerned about her size, and select a stallion smaller than she is, but not drastically so, one with excellent legs, not wanting to take the chance of getting a large horse with marginal legs.

By all accounts, she has a good disposition. I would try not to lose that by breeding to a nasty stallion who sires nasty animals.

With such an extraordinary mare, I would not chance wasting her time with unproven, new stallions, but use only those of known quality.

Kimberly Mine: Cape Cross (Green Desert, Danzig)
Sea the Stars or his halfbrother Galileo.

I would love to see her covered by a stallion in Europe, but I guess this is only a dream.

I would love to hear your opinions on Zenny being bred to Invasor.

Going only by live race feeds and Invasor's conformation photo, I don't like the physical.

Invasor looks kind of mutton-withered, nesty, and muscled on the underside of the neck. Leroidesanimaux has the same front end. Candy Ride's is similar, but he has better muscling on the top of his neck and a better-defined neck/chest.

If Zen were medium-sized with a lighter to medium body, that wouldn't matter so much. Because she's so big, getting a big burly foal whose front end conformation wouldn't let it go easily into self-carriage from the hindquarter is not desirable.

Pedigree-wise, there's nothing wrong with the mating. I just can't get by the physical. Same reason I like Danehill Dancer and do NOT like Dansili--the physical isn't right.

Cape Cross I like a LOT for her. Prodigious female family, sires horses with speed to burn (e.g. Seachange) and ones who will stay classic distances, and when he gets a good one, he really, really, really gets a good one.

Unless they Mosses go overseas, though, Giant's Causeway is a no-brainer, since he got a champion out of a full sister to Zenyatta's sire.

I'd look at stallions from the same female family. Here's the logic.

Zenyatta is from family 4-r, which has a particular version of mtDNA. What's coming to light is that the mtDNA has a role in distance aptitudes. Clearly she's got a good combination of mtDNA, and chromosomes that work together.

If there is a stallion out there with a good race record and the same mtDNA type, this would maximize the chances that the foal would also get chromosomes that would complement the mtDNA it will inherit from Zenyatta.

Not by the way a new breeding theory: "Breed back to the best blood of the dam."

If it's a U.S. stallion I would go to Candy Ride (the foal's parents would be 25 for 26 combined).

Tairaterces wrote:I would love to hear your opinions on Zenny being bred to Invasor.

Invasor and Sea the Stars are unknowns. They could be complete failures as stallions --or they could be blazing successes. I would not take that chance.

xfactor fan wrote:I'd look at stallions from the same female family. Here's the logic.

Zenyatta is from family 4-r, which has a particular version of mtDNA. What's coming to light is that the mtDNA has a role in distance aptitudes. Clearly she's got a good combination of mtDNA, and chromosomes that work together.

If there is a stallion out there with a good race record and the same mtDNA type, this would maximize the chances that the foal would also get chromosomes that would complement the mtDNA it will inherit from Zenyatta.

Not by the way a new breeding theory: "Breed back to the best blood of the dam."

I looked into that as well. Mizzen Mast is from her family and brings Cozzene into the mix.
It will never happen though.

Blame offers a very interesting cross too. They are very genetically similar and I like his phenotype with her as well.

To keep this real, there are only a small handful of stallions in her league so to speak. Several of them such as A P Indy and Dynaformer are probably too old. (You seriously would not want to risk her having conception problems and/or a very late foal right out of the blocks.) Distorted Humor seems entirely the wrong type and probably too small. Smart Strike is loading up on Mr P which may or may not be desirable. Unbridled's Song is the right size but you may be risking a foal that is just too large. Medaglia d'Oro may be too small.

Giant's Causeway, who needs size in his mares, is a logical choice. Another possibility is Bernardini who is performing really well for a first year.

Sysonby wrote:To keep this real, there are only a small handful of stallions in her league so to speak. Several of them such as A P Indy and Dynaformer are probably too old. (You seriously would not want to risk her having conception problems and/or a very late foal right out of the blocks.) Distorted Humor seems entirely the wrong type and probably too small. Smart Strike is loading up on Mr P which may or may not be desirable. Unbridled's Song is the right size but you may be risking a foal that is just too large. Medaglia d'Oro may be too small.

Giant's Causeway, who needs size in his mares, is a logical choice. Another possibility is Bernardini who is performing really well for a first year.

In terms of bloodlines, Smart Strike is wrong wrong wrong, not because of the Mr P, but because the one bloodline he really wants is the one she also really needs and doesn't have--Danzig.

Aside from being old, Dynaformer does not serve maiden mares and he is too large. Tiznow is too large and not the right type. Pulpit is not the right type.

Elusive Quality is really hit-or-miss.

Hard Spun hits every pedigree ticky-box but he's not proven. Lemon Drop Kid and Mineshaft are a touch below the top tier, but both are big horses and probably too stout for her.

All this comes back to Giant's Causeway--he's the right age, he's the right type, he's the right size, he's the right pedigree, he's well-proven, and he'll get runners on dirt and turf.

Kimberly Mine.

What about Giacomo?