Thoughts on this mare - Pete et al?

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CS
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Thoughts on this mare - Pete et al?

Postby CS » Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:48 am

Considering the purchase of the mare Gramdanya (Wolf Power x Vandanya). Any thoughts on her usefullness as the dam of eventual sale candiates? Would be bred to KY stallions in the 10-20K range. Pete - she has a Freud colt by her side. As the local NY guru, any value to this foal as a NY bred? Thanks in advance.

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Postby kimberley mine » Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:29 pm

Wow, I like to see Wolf Power in a pedigree. He didn't exactly light the world on fire as a stallion, but he threw sound, honest foals that got the job done.

Gramdanya comes from a reasonable family, with a pair of blacktype half-sisters and a blacktype dam. Note, though, that this is minor blacktype and you might be better off foaling her out in NY or PA and breeding back to a local horse--as the foal might sell better in a smaller market.

Wolf Power mares have produced:

Milwaukee Brew (G1, by Wild Again)
Silk Bravo (G2, by Cozzene)
Powerful Appeal (G3p, Valid Appeal)
Hurrahy (G3, Rahy)
Silver Nithi (L, Numerous)
Miss Gold Dee (LP, Gold Legend)

Your mare carries a strain of Myrtlewood--Seattle Slew and Mr Prospector both appreciate a return of this blood. Miss Gold Dee implies that you can get a runner by adding Slew to Wolf Power, so that is a track to follow.

Doneraile Court is my first choice. He seems to be getting better runners than Chief Seattle. He lasted longer than Chief Seattle (the other Slew in your price bracket), which is encouraging. He has a twice-winning gelding out of the Wolf Power mare Bee the One. And his kids have gotten off to a hot start. Book now. Hill'n'Dale, $15,000.

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Keith
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Here is how she looks in a catalogue

Postby Keith » Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:50 pm

Hi!

On the Fasig Tipton website you can see her pedigree of her Regal Classic colt Here is the website http://www.fasigtipton.com/catalogs/2004/0815/428.pdf

Keith

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Postby CS » Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:57 pm

Thanks Keith - I have a current extended pedigree as well, and there are a few improvements over the FT sale page - Wally's Chice is a G3 winner, Illusive Force is G3 placed.

Would this pedigree have commercial appeal - most of the blacktype in the family is by relatively obscure stallions. We are willing to really upgrade the stallion. Thanks for your thoughts

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The mare is unproven with not much of a race record.

Postby Keith » Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:53 pm

Her Regal Classic colt only brought the price of the stud fee because she is unproven and she has not made that much money. She does have alot of black type but most of the stakes are restricted races. Her value rides on her two year old whether he does something or not. Wolf Power does seem to like Nearctic bloodlines if you go on Milwaukee Brew and Northern Wolf. Warrens Whistle who is by Wolf Power is out of a Pirateer mare and she made $527,558. Pirateer is by Roberto being from the Hail to Reason line. Hurrahy who is out of a Wolf Power mare and is a grade 3 stakes winner and seems to like Hail to Reason through Rahy who is out of a Halo mare. Wolf Power also seems to like Swaps added to the pedigree if you consider Milwaukee Brew and Silk Bravo. Considering this mare's bloodlines Raise a Native has done well when you consider Wally's Choice who is out of a Commemorate mare. Considering Illusive Force there is more Hail to Reason through Halo the sire of Rowdy Angel the dam of Yoonevano who is the sire of Illusive Force. Your mares lines also seem to like Northern Dancer when considering Wally's Choice and Illusive Force. I do not see this mare having commercial appeal considering what little money she made and being unproven. Wolf Power is not that commercial but she may be a nice broodmare and only time will tell. If you buy her I would consider these stallions.
1. Vicar
2. Lost Soldier
3. Pine Bluff
4. Grindstone
5. Birdstone
6. Bernstein
7. Stormy Atlantic
8. Buddha
9. Yankee Gentlemen
10. Van Nistlerooy
11. Northern Afleet

Keith

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Postby CS » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:34 am

This would be for the 2006 breeding season - just looking to see if she would be worth purchasing. Possible stallions include Canadian Frontier and Proud Citizen. Just thinking that the immeadiate family has produced useful runners/stakes performers from very obscure stallions. Perhaps by taking her to a quality stallion she could really produce. Thanks.

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I Know This Mare

Postby JCBloodstock » Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:14 am

I know This Mare-she came from Sampson Throughbreds in Minnesota - I bred her dam a few years back when I had Commemorate - I'm not sure what this mare was like but her momma definitely had an attitude - she's a half sister to a mare by Commemorate that produced a Grade 3 Stakes Winner last year by a very modest stallion called Quick Cut(Storm Cat - Surgery by Dr. Fager) unplaced in only start earning $440 but is from a very nice female family:Family of Left Court,Sewickley,Shared Interest,Forestry,Cash Run----------I think the Freud colt should have very real possibilities if the conformations good.And,I do know the Sampson's now only keep there $100,000 plus earners and as also being the owner's of Canterbury Downs there horses do get the oppurtunities at the track so the pedigree could get better.

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Pete
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Postby Pete » Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:08 pm

Hi CS,

My apoligies for a belated response. I remembered her name and her pedigree as I looked it up again and realize that I must not have gotten to my response because of the sales I was attending AND the fact that you were looking at 2006. My apologies. BTW, I look awful in guru garb :)

If you're considering a stallion in KY, it's not too early to think about them. Did Gramdanya have a foal in 2005? Was she bred back - and to what stallion? Can you give a description of her and her faults/sterngths?

Wolf Power is doing well as a broodmare sire. Milwaukee Brew gave him some credibility statistically he's doing OK. Adena Springs has 'championed' him to an extent and they have a number of his mares.

Hip #600 at the FT May 2yo sales was a lovely Wolf Power filly who brought $110,000, so the price can be there if the foal has the look (and she did).

I think she's a nice mare for the NY program. JC Bloodstock's given you some insight to her connections and that's always good information to have.

This mare will be an outcross through 4 generations for almost any sire and that gives you some flexibility. I'd look to the phenotypes rather than pedigree as a guide to breeding her, for her success at the sales will be made by the quality of the foal she throws until her own foals performance starts to dominate her appeal.

Do you know anything about her Victory Speech and Regal Classic that are of racing age? In training, etc. What fee range are you considering?

I'll be quicker with my response after getting yours.

Regards,

Pete
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This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.

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Postby CS » Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:56 am

Pete - thanks for your response. We decided to pass on her, as she is a cribber. If anyone is interested her price has been reduced to $6,500. Her Freud foal is probably worth that much! She's listed on Starquine.

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Postby Pete » Sun Jul 17, 2005 4:46 pm

Hi CS,

I don't like cribbers either - especially broodmares. They can and do train their foals to crib, are at risk for disease and respiratory problems.

When evaluating a broodmare prospect who they and their family has been bred to is an important factor as well as the breeders and owners of these foals. If you're considering a mare that has sisters who haven't produced with better sires and solid connections, that understand how to mold good quality winners, then you have some idea of what to expect. There are always exceptions too.

Regards,

Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.

Horses like their credit cards.
- Four Forty Farms

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Postby sb » Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:20 pm

[quote="Pete"]Hi CS,

I don't like cribbers either - especially broodmares. They can and do train their foals to crib, are at risk for disease and respiratory problems.

Who does, lol., but I have a recipe to potentially cure cribbing. Never hurts trying. And by the way, not all cribbers crib to the same degree, and most can be stopped with a cribbing strap if the recipee won't work.
This recipe is based on the belief that these horses have a problem with their digestive track somewhere, and the treatment is rather simple and inexpensive and involves probiotics. The person who gave it to me swears by it. Email me if you want a copy of it: [email protected].

SB

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Pete
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Postby Pete » Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:53 pm

Hi SB,

I'm trying a new tactic with cribbers - not buying them, and if I end up with one a simple proposition for the horse:

STOP THE CRIBBING - or - I'LL RIDE YOU!

Thanks and I'll email you.

Regards,

Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.

Horses like their credit cards.
- Four Forty Farms

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Pete
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Postby Pete » Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:54 pm

HI SB,

My email was returned undeliverable?

Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.

Horses like their credit cards.
- Four Forty Farms

sb
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Postby sb » Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:07 am

Pete wrote:HI SB,

My email was returned undeliverable?

Pete


Pete, I send you an email in response to your note. NOt sure what's going on, but I'm concerned. Please let me know if you got it or not.

Thank you kindly,
Sabine