Pedigree Query

My Mare Tanya's Song has an A++ Werk Nick ratinf if bred to Lane's End's City Zip. Should I consider this ?

Did I hear he is going back to NY or am I thinking of another horse?

What is the Werk Nick rating based upon? Carson City? and what?

Based on Carson City - Cox's Ridge ....

Check the conformation of both and temperment. As two high strung individuals are a bad mating.

Are both individuals the blocky QH type or are they the opposite from one another?

Would those two individuals be a speed and stamina mating or stamina to stamina?

Breeders that receive a A++ mating usually let it go to their head and end up with an also ran because they forget to go through the above, before making the union.

hi guys

Little Miss Zip (by City Zip and out of Meadow Dream by Meadowlake) won the New York-bred $130k+- Lady Fingers S last weekend.

Did the Werk Nick work?

Respectfully

City Zip sold for a paltry sum as a yearling, somewhere in the #17k range if my memory serves. I haven't seen him so I have no idea if he was small, crooked, unattractive, late foal, or just didn't vet out. Can anyone comment?

A little bird told me that the City Zip they had this year had significant limb issues and was about a $2000 foal. The limb issue did not come from the mare.

hi guys

To the best of my recollection CZ had check ligament surgery...the result was not particularly attractive (maybe an understatement), and as a result he sold for approx $11k.

Respectfully

City Zip is his father, crooked and flat in the knee as well. Looking at his progeny is not too different from looking at Carson City progeny.

I do not know about any check ligament surgery.

City Zip moved from New York to Lanes End for the 2005 season, and it looks like it was a good decision.

He actually did not sell as Carl Bowling bought him back and sent him to Linda Rice, (who never denied his front end issues) but will tell you he was one of the bravest horses she has ever trained.

hi roving boy

City Zip was bought back as a 2-yo in training...but he was originally purchased by Bowling at Keeneland (if I recall correctly) for very little...maybe $9,000 or $10,000 or $11,000+-.

I am confident...CZ did have check ligament surgery.

Best to you.

Respectfully

hpkingjr, A Werk nick rating is a subjective analysis of sire and dam crosses and the success on the racetrack of said crosses. Mike Werk reviews all sire and dam crosses for several generations and issues a rating based on the Stakes quality and monetary success of similar crosses. I believe an A++ is his highest rating.

Many years ago I had a Big Spruce mare and purchased his service. I bred her to Stalwart, resulting in colt rated an A+ nick. He was not the athlete his rating indicated. I lost him for $12,500 and he ended up breaking his maiden for $5000, finally ending his career pulling a chariot with a buddy up in Canada.

zinn21 wrote:hpkingjr, A Werk nick rating is a subjective analysis of sire and dam crosses and the success on the racetrack of said crosses. Mike Werk reviews all sire and dam crosses for several generations and issues a rating based on the Stakes quality and monetary success of similar crosses. I believe an A++ is his highest rating.

Many years ago I had a Big Spruce mare and purchased his service. I bred her to Stalwart, resulting in colt rated an A+ nick. He was not the athlete his rating indicated. I lost him for $12,500 and he ended up breaking his maiden for $5000, finally ending his career pulling a chariot with a buddy up in Canada.

Hi Zinn,

The Werk figures are objective (aka, they are the result of a mathmatical formula that will produce the same score for the same cross so long as the same database of SWs is used); it just doesn't make any sense how these objective scores are generated.

-llbean

Zinn21, I have discovered your problem....you inadvertantly used the "Mike" Werk Nick Rating which applies to draft horse potential rather than the "Jack" Werk Nick Rating which applies to racing ability

Honestly I have a hard time with any theory that completely disregards 1/2 of the pedigree, particularly the female half!

Roving Boy thanks for the correct name. I went to school with a Mike Work and paid Jack Werk. IIbean you say objective I say subjective. The math may be objective but the pedigree weighting is purely subjective. I agree with your "throwing out half the pedigree" analysis.