Boldnesian Linebreeding?

[ZiaLand]

In doing some recent research I've noticed several of the pedigrees I've studied had Boldnesian linebreeding, usually through the sire's dam/dam's sire lines though it was often generationally unbalanced (such as 2x5).

Does anyone know if there has been an established pattern of success with linebreeding to Boldnesian? Was Boldnesian considered a superior sire, sire of sires or broodmare sire?

Much thanks,
Laurie

[louis finochio]

Do you have a TB Assn. library in your area? If so look at the back issues of the BH stallion directory. You will find the answers to your ?

[llbean]

Hi Zialand,

With the beneficent aid of the G1Goldmine Program ( www.g1goldmine.com ), I find that Boldnesian is inbred to in the G1 Winners Sis City and Officer besides the G3Ws Testify, Maysville Slew, American Justice, and Deputy G.

Now by using the G1Goldmine Program in concert with PedigreeQuery I (and by extension you) can check each of the Boldnesian Source combinations found in the above GSWs to see how many tries it took to get such and so G1Ws and/or GSWs...

-Michael

[llbean]

As an example here are all the PQ horses iwth Seattle and Bold Ruckus (the combination found in the G1W Sis City):

Common Ancestors for SEATTLE SLEW and BOLD RUCKUS
Horse Sex Year Sire Dam
SEATTLE JANE M 1995 BOLD RUCKUS SEATTLE PRINCESS
DOCS STORMY GIRL M 1999 DR CATON BOLD AND STORMY2
BARBIE SOCKS M 2002 ZAMINDAR DOCS STORMY GIRL
CLASSY WITCH2 F 2002 ZAMINDAR DOCS STORMY GIRL
LEGS O NEAL F 2000 NELSON CARENAGE
CRIMSON RUCKUS H 1995 CRIMSON SLEW VICTORIA RUCKUS
OUR GAL M 1998 AP INDY GAL IN A RUCKUS
GOLD DREAM3 H 1995 GOLD LEGEND COUNT ON LYN
MARISTEN F 2002 DR CATON BOLD AND STORMY2
RUCKUS IN COURT F 2001 DONERAILE COURT RUCKIN ANGEL
AUTOMATIC STAY F 2003 SEATTLE BOUND TICO TICO
MR GRANDCOURT C 2003 BEAU GENIUS KAPU SLEW
CHRISTYS GOLDMINE G 1995 GOLD LEGEND CHRISTY'S RUCKUS
FOXY BEAU H 1998 BEAU GENIUS VALORETTE2
LEGS ONEAL M 2000 NELSON CARENAGE
MISS INSEATTLE F 1999 SEATTLE KNIGHT GRACES FAVOUR
ECLIPSE WINNER F 2001 EVENT OF THE YEAR DIAMOND LANE2
VALS GENIUS F 2000 BEAU GENIUS VALORETTE2
CHANGO3 C 1999 BOLD DAVID UPMANSHIP
MAMAS GOTTA GO F 1999 DOUBLE D SLEW SWEET LORI
SHES GOT ISSUES F 2000 HAIL THE RUCKUS NELLIES NAUGHTY
COUNT KAT G 1999 KATAHAULA COUNTY RED PHOENIX
OLYMPIC BONFIRE F 2001 KATAHAULA COUNTY SLEWVAKIA
BOS A TEN F 2000 PATTON BODUST
HAIL STORM EXPRESS C 2001 HAIL THE RUCKUS EXPRESS BONUS
SLEWTH SLAYER H 1999 SLEW OF ANGELS HOLLY RUCKUS
BOLD BRIGADE C 2000 BOLD EXECUTIVE SERIOUS RUSH
MISSILE OGOLD F 2002 SLEW O GOLD WAKE UP GENIE
PLEA FOR LEE F 2003 LEESTOWN APACHE RUCKUS
J TS BEAU C 2002 BEAU GENIUS SWEET MEETING
MAXNIECE F 1996 THIRTY SIX RED SARANNAH
SECRET RUCKUS H 1999 KATAHAULA COUNTY GORGEOUS MISS
SLEWPY RUCKUS C 2000 SLEW OF ANGELS HOLLY RUCKUS
JTS BEAU C 2002 BEAU GENIUS SWEET MEETING
SLEW CITY BABE F 2001 SLEW CITY SLEW GO BEAU BIRDIE
SIS CITY F 2002 SLEW CITY SLEW SMART SIS
BOLDER THE BETTER G 2002 BOLD N FLASHY JESSICA DON
CLASSY CAT CALL M 2002 HIGHLAND RUCKUS LITTLE LADY LIAR
SUN CITY SLEW G 2001 SLEW CITY SLEW WAKE UP GENIE
ALLONDRA M 1997 BOLD DAVID UPMANSHIP
BEAUS COUNTY C 2001 BEAU GENIUS FRIVOLOUS SAL2
ROCK A FELLA G 2004 CIRCULATING BRIDLED SONG
RUBYS RUBY F 2001 MUTAKDDIM BALD RUCKUS
GWYNEDD3 F 2002 OLD TRIESTE BLIND TRUST
PIPE SMOKER G 2002 CIRCULATING PRINCESS TIREE
ST ROCH G 2002 LEESTOWN APACHE RUCKUS
BIRCH BAY SLEW H 1997 LA SABOTEUR MUCHTODO
FLASHY LIL F 1998 BOLD N FLASHY MISS JONESY
HALE-BOPP H 1997 SEATTLE KNIGHT VALOR STAR
SHELLIES SLEW F 2002 BEAU GENIUS FISTFULLOGOLD
HASTY HELEN2 F 2001 BOLD N FLASHY HASTY DEPARTURE2
SALLYS COUP M 1993 SLEW THE COUP BABY BOLD
BY GRACE ALONE F 2002 WISED UP SALLYS COUP
POWER IN PRAYER C 2001 STRUGGLER SALLYS COUP
SHOOTIN FOR GOLD F 2000 DEMALOOT DEMASHOOT CALL ME GOLDIE
BOLD FINALE C 2003 BOLD EXECUTIVE FINALE SLEW
SQUIRT GUN2 C 2005 DEMALOOT DEMASHOOT BELLE OF OCALA
HAIIL STORM EXPRESS G 2001 HAIL THE RUCKUS EXPRESS BONUS
LOST IN LA F 2002 WILD INVADER LAURAS ASHLEY
FOWLER CREEK G 2001 LEESTOWN SINGING GENIUS
SWEET SELECTION2 F 2000 NATURAL SELECTION SWEET RUCKUS
ALL HAIL STORMY C 2001 STORMY ATLANTIC HAIL A PRINCESS
BARRETS3 C 2007 BEAU GENIUS HEAVENLY PLAN
THATS AMAZING2 C 2002 JOHN THE MAGICIAN AMAZING SKY
DODDLES2 G 2002 GET ME OUT MARGARETSDREAM
PARISIAN STORM F 2002 STORMY ATLANTIC PRETTY WOMEN
BRIEF DELIGHT F 2002 BRIEF RUCKUS PAMS DELIGHT
NEARLY A LADY2 F 2003 THISNEARLYWASMINE LIKE A LADY
LAKE FERRARI F 2003 LAKE AUSTIN CAPTAIN MESSIER
SERENDIPITY ROSES H 2003 SYNASTRY EXPRESS BOLD ROSA
NAHODKA F 2002 ACCELERATOR MOMS A GENIUS
HEY HOLLY F 2000 SLEW OF ANGELS DANCERS HOLLY
FLY FORREST FLY G 2002 CAPE CANAVERAL SMOOTH QUEST
IMMEDIATE CHANCE M 1998 AMERICAN CHANCE IMMEDIATE ANSWER
PAMS RUCKUS F 2001 BRIEF RUCKUS PAMS DELIGHT
PARISAN STORM F 2001 STORMY ATLANTIC PRETTY WOMEN
DAY FLASH C 2002 STORMIN FEVER ROSES N SILKS
CHRISTINAS ROSEBUD F 2002 CITY BY NIGHT JUST DIMPLES
GRANIQUE C 2002 MUTAKDDIM MILLASHAND
MY IMPERIAL JET M 2001 MY IMPERIAL SLEW EXECUTIVE JET
SEE ME GO2 M 1995 SLEW OF ANGELS SEA MY TIME
BAY MIST2 F 2007 PAYNES BAY CITY MIST
ZA MOE F 2005 MODERN DAY MOSES ZAWADAYOUGOT
MALIBU BEAU C 2002 MALIBU WESLEY MEBS GENIUS
NEXT SPEECH C 2006 FIGURE OF SPEECH2 NEXT TO HEAVEN
FRISPJS C 2004 FRISK ME NOW P JS DAY
TRULY FRISKY C 2003 FRISK ME NOW P JS DAY

-llbean

[henthorn]

Boldnesian was an excellent sire (11% SW), but you don't see him much because he died young. His son Bold Reasoning (sire of Seattle Slew) is also not often seen outside of his famous son, because he only stood three years at stud before his death. However, from only sixty-four foals total, he produced two champions and nine other SW.

This info is from Avalyn Hunter's book "American Classic Pedigrees".

With this sort of information, and the known tendency to unsoundness in the line, any inbreeding should be considered in light of a soundness and conformation history.

[llbean]

Hi Henthorn,

Are you saying Boldnesian died of unsoundness?

Because unless that was the case I fail to see why the information supplied by American Classic Pedigrees is any reason to be especially concerned about soundness with this sort of inbreeding...

Anyway, even though Boldnesian's main source (Seattle Slew) does have soundness problems; the other main sources of him have been fine in that area:

Boldnesian has sired:

Bold Captive (29 Starts), the dam of Skywalker (20 Starts).

Bold Ruckus (24 starts), the sire of the Multiple Canadian GIW Colt Karidashi (44 Starts), the Kentucky Oaks Winning Filly Gal In A Ruckus (15 Starts), and the Philip H. Iselin (GI) Winner Beau Genius (42 Starts).

Sunny Smile (25 Starts), the dam of the Champion Sprinter Smile (27 Starts).

Bold Bikini (21 Starts), the dam of the inexplicably named Irish Derby (GI) Winner Law Society (only 8 starts, but that in Europe, where they race top horses less frequently).

The horse himself (Boldnesian) did only start 5 times before breaking down, I'll give you that...

-llbean

[ZiaLand]

Thanks so much for your insights and information on Boldnesian. It appears he was a much better sire and influence than I even realized. VERY valuable information in doing this research.

Much thanks,
Laurie

[henthorn]

Hi, llbean. My wording was misleading above. I know very little about Bold Ruckus or Boldnesian's soundness traits. I know Seattle Slew has had difficulty passing soundness through most of his sons. And I have not seen much inbreeding to Boldnesian or Bold Reasoning because of their shortened stud careers. However, I would be careful of inbreeding to Seattle Slew unless one knows the soundness and conformation of the descendants in question.