Hi guys,
We * finally * made a decision, for better or for worse, regarding a 2006 mating for Carly Pooh. This week we sent her, & her baby, to Md. where Carly will be bred to Louis Quatorze. Fingers crossed !!!
Final answer...
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Final answer...
Bring 'em back tired ; but bring 'em back sound !
Re: Final answer...
mikec wrote:Hi guys,
We * finally * made a decision, for better or for worse, regarding a 2006 mating for Carly Pooh. This week we sent her, & her baby, to Md. where Carly will be bred to Louis Quatorze. Fingers crossed !!!
Best Wishes for a gorgeous, healthy and very talented foal for 2007, and of course, a very healthy Carly Pooh
P.S. Interesting how your expert advised bringing in some more Bold Ruler. I guess I have a rooting interest
Thanks again BJ !
As you may recall we actually hired two " experts ". I wanted one who would give a good overall analysis and one who would concentrate heavily on the female. I got what I wanted but the most interesting part of all given the Bold Ruler duplication is that of all the stallion selections, from both sources, Louis Quatorze was the only one duplicated. Sooo...IMO his stud fee is a serious bargain & he's local, I've already got my Bold Ruler / Bold Ruler with Slew City Slew, Now I'll have Northern Dancer / Bold Ruler +, so going forward I can play around with the many outcrosses that look tempting. Starting to look like a road trip to Florida next year !
As you may recall we actually hired two " experts ". I wanted one who would give a good overall analysis and one who would concentrate heavily on the female. I got what I wanted but the most interesting part of all given the Bold Ruler duplication is that of all the stallion selections, from both sources, Louis Quatorze was the only one duplicated. Sooo...IMO his stud fee is a serious bargain & he's local, I've already got my Bold Ruler / Bold Ruler with Slew City Slew, Now I'll have Northern Dancer / Bold Ruler +, so going forward I can play around with the many outcrosses that look tempting. Starting to look like a road trip to Florida next year !
Bring 'em back tired ; but bring 'em back sound !
[quote="mikec"]Thanks again BJ !
Now I'll have Northern Dancer / Bold Ruler +, so going forward I can play around with the many outcrosses that look tempting.
Just curious: what's in store for the next generation with that much Bold Ruler and Northern Dancer, and all are males, except for BOLD PRINCESS* [BR]
.
NORTHERN DANCER 3S x 5D x 4D (3) (0)
SOVEREIGN DANCER VICEREGAL VICE REGENT
BOLD RULER 4s x 5S x 5D x 6D (2) (1)
Now I'll have Northern Dancer / Bold Ruler +, so going forward I can play around with the many outcrosses that look tempting.
Just curious: what's in store for the next generation with that much Bold Ruler and Northern Dancer, and all are males, except for BOLD PRINCESS* [BR]
.
NORTHERN DANCER 3S x 5D x 4D (3) (0)
SOVEREIGN DANCER VICEREGAL VICE REGENT
BOLD RULER 4s x 5S x 5D x 6D (2) (1)
Hi SB,
That's a fair question ! This mating was by no means an easy call as I argued with myself, and still am, for many hours. Without sidestepping your question a next generation plan may be a bridge too far and would require many assumptions on my part that I'm not prepared to make at this juncture.
To me the biggest hurdle, at least one of them, is the lack of black type from Carly's female family in recent years. I think it was BJ who correctly pointed out that Carly was a " useful " runner, the best produced by her Dam to date, who could go short or long on dirt or grass, as long as she steered clear of slop, for $160K. Michael Gill & Ferris Allen conducted a private claiming war for her as well with each claiming her 3x so they must have seen something. To me these are all positives but, having said that - no black type - and her dam hasn't produced any as yet either at the track herself nor in the breeding shed & I need to go to her 2nd. dam to see any black. Of that black type none of those horses ever saw the light of day at a North American track or breeding shed being almost immediately shipped off to places like Argentina & Puerto Rico, which arguably weren't the centers of the breeding universe at the time, so they probably didn't see the best of mare's / Stallions. Yeah ; that's my cop out !!! Additionally her Gazala line is virtually dead. So the first assumption I need to make is that Carly produces a black type runner justifying a next generation mating. If not - fuggedaboutit !
Assuming she does, from this particular mating, however I didn't feel like all that inbreeding was " too bad " ( judgement call ) since most of it takes place from the 4th. to 6th. generations. With Louis' 4th. Dam being a full to Nashua I'd most likely play off that - enter Mr. P, Roberto, etc...
I could double Never Bend - Sadler's Wells, Mecke, Cat Thief, etc... Or ; I could get totally nuts & try something like Mt. Livermore.
Still ; IMHO Carly comes from a good family. Her pedigree is filled with land mines but worth sending in a mine sweeper. Yeah ; after this we're done with inbreeding !!!
That's a fair question ! This mating was by no means an easy call as I argued with myself, and still am, for many hours. Without sidestepping your question a next generation plan may be a bridge too far and would require many assumptions on my part that I'm not prepared to make at this juncture.
To me the biggest hurdle, at least one of them, is the lack of black type from Carly's female family in recent years. I think it was BJ who correctly pointed out that Carly was a " useful " runner, the best produced by her Dam to date, who could go short or long on dirt or grass, as long as she steered clear of slop, for $160K. Michael Gill & Ferris Allen conducted a private claiming war for her as well with each claiming her 3x so they must have seen something. To me these are all positives but, having said that - no black type - and her dam hasn't produced any as yet either at the track herself nor in the breeding shed & I need to go to her 2nd. dam to see any black. Of that black type none of those horses ever saw the light of day at a North American track or breeding shed being almost immediately shipped off to places like Argentina & Puerto Rico, which arguably weren't the centers of the breeding universe at the time, so they probably didn't see the best of mare's / Stallions. Yeah ; that's my cop out !!! Additionally her Gazala line is virtually dead. So the first assumption I need to make is that Carly produces a black type runner justifying a next generation mating. If not - fuggedaboutit !
Assuming she does, from this particular mating, however I didn't feel like all that inbreeding was " too bad " ( judgement call ) since most of it takes place from the 4th. to 6th. generations. With Louis' 4th. Dam being a full to Nashua I'd most likely play off that - enter Mr. P, Roberto, etc...
I could double Never Bend - Sadler's Wells, Mecke, Cat Thief, etc... Or ; I could get totally nuts & try something like Mt. Livermore.
Still ; IMHO Carly comes from a good family. Her pedigree is filled with land mines but worth sending in a mine sweeper. Yeah ; after this we're done with inbreeding !!!
Bring 'em back tired ; but bring 'em back sound !
sb wrote:mikec wrote:Thanks again BJ !
Now I'll have Northern Dancer / Bold Ruler +, so going forward I can play around with the many outcrosses that look tempting.sb wrote:Just curious: what's in store for the next generation with that much Bold Ruler and Northern Dancer, and all are males, except for BOLD PRINCESS* [BR]
.
NORTHERN DANCER 3S x 5D x 4D (3) (0)
SOVEREIGN DANCER VICEREGAL VICE REGENT
BOLD RULER 4s x 5S x 5D x 6D (2) (1)
Take a look at the breeding of G1 & G2 winner Sis City. (There are many other examples(besides Sis City) of multiple crosses of Bold Ruler and Northern Dancer lines being G1 & G2 winners. So, while there is no predicting anything...it is NOT a negative nick.
My only caveat to MikeC would be...stay away from BUCKPASSER w/ that much Bold Ruler. The book I am reading now, says that Buckpasser w/Bold Ruler lines is a negative nick because Bold Ruler had a tendancy to pass on Arthritis (so be aware of joint issues...I'd be checking into putting the foal on adequan as soon as it is safe to do so) and Buckpasser had a tendency to pass on bad knees. So with future outcrossing, you will want to be aware of these "negatives" and research any other possible negatives of any prospective added relatives.
The book is Racehorse Breeding Theories, by Frank Mitchell, Ph.D. Lots of good info. Debunks a lot of the "fashionable" theories and/or dissects them to show "why" it is a good theory and why it is not supported by true facts and statistics.
Yeah ; I agree with just about everything you just said BJ. I think, in fairness, that SB was just saying that it's really a whole lot of bold ruler & northern dancer and he's right about that. Believe me ; I really agonized over this mating. Anything on paper aside I like Louis Quatorze anyway. He ran competitively with the likes of Cigar & Skip Away, not to mention he's a real specimen, and that's good enough for me. Since Carly's first foal is a 3/4 to SIS CITY, and since Carly & that foal are each first's for us, we'd be in seventh heaven if she turned out to be anything like her 3/4 sister.
Maybe you / someone can confirm this for me - I'm not sure but I thought I read somewhere that Cryptoclearance is a natural for Beau Genius mares ?
Maybe you / someone can confirm this for me - I'm not sure but I thought I read somewhere that Cryptoclearance is a natural for Beau Genius mares ?
Bring 'em back tired ; but bring 'em back sound !
mikec wrote:Yeah ; I agree with just about everything you just said BJ. I think, in fairness, that SB was just saying that it's really a whole lot of bold ruler & northern dancer and he's right about that. Believe me ; I really agonized over this mating. Anything on paper aside I like Louis Quatorze anyway. He ran competitively with the likes of Cigar & Skip Away, not to mention he's a real specimen, and that's good enough for me. Since Carly's first foal is a 3/4 to SIS CITY, and since Carly & that foal are each first's for us, we'd be in seventh heaven if she turned out to be anything like her 3/4 sister.
Maybe you / someone can confirm this for me - I'm not sure but I thought I read somewhere that Cryptoclearance is a natural for Beau Genius mares ?
I don't know anything at all about Cryptoclearance. Sorry. BUT
alas... equineline.com or brisnet.com would have progeny reports (and nicking reports) on Cryptoclearance. To show how little I know about him, I'm gonna risk saying to check out wherever he is standing to see if they have reports on him. Many of the breeders are now furnishing these reports in their marketing. (Which they SHOULD, if they stand behind their stallion! )
BTW, I wasn't dissing SB's comment. Just pointing out that there is a history of examples to support the possibilities. But hey...wouldn't be the first time I didn't come across well
*I don't know anything at all about Cryptoclearance. *
You can find details and/or located a great number of stallions here by just typing in the name. There are other, convenient categories as well such as location, fees, etc.
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/isd/index.aspx
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/isd/st ... _no=972550
www.margauxfarm.com
I like him but he looks crooked in the video.
You can find details and/or located a great number of stallions here by just typing in the name. There are other, convenient categories as well such as location, fees, etc.
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/isd/index.aspx
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/isd/st ... _no=972550
www.margauxfarm.com
I like him but he looks crooked in the video.
Cryptoclearance despite being a large horse is supposed to get pretty small foals, but they seem to stay pretty sound even if they aren't the most attractive animals. He gets his foals to the track and they tend to do well, but his stakes production is low for his stud fee and he drops his mares quite a bit. His sales results have been uninspiring as of late, but you can say that about almost every proven sire in that price range.
I don't have low self-esteem. I have low esteem for everyone else. ~ Daria