Just noticed a very intersting story at the bloodhorse website. Geneticists have identified performance related genes in the thoroughbred.
Dr. Stephen Harrison of Thoroughbred Genetics and Juan Luis Turrion-Gomez of the University of Salamanca, detected variations in eight athletically-important genes in DNA samples taken from 1,000 Thoroughbreds that raced as 3-year-olds, including classic winners.
The study found that individual breeding lines possess variant combinations of these performance-related genes, with each combination giving a horse a different racing aptitude.
Harrison found that horses carrying specific gene variants performed well over certain distances -- i.e., a winner of the Belmont Stakes (gr. I) at 12 furlongs is likely to be of a different genetic type to a Breeders' Cup Sprint (six furlongs) winner.
The data could help trainers identify, from day one, optimum running distances for horses, develop appropriate training regimes and help target specific races which will suit the horses‚ individual genetic profiles," Harrison said.
The study also found that the gene combinations are inherited solely from the dam, on a molecule known as mitochondrial DNA.
Harrison believes that his team's findings could remove much of the guesswork and risk involved in potential matings.
The Game may be close to over
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn, Diane
-
xfactor fan
- Breeder's Cup Winner
- Posts: 2212
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:46 pm
The thing about mtDNA is that it is passed on from egg to egg to egg, without any change. Or very little change over a very long time. All members of a femail family, lets say family 1, would have the same mtDNA, both the mares and the stallions. In stallions it doesn't pass on--no mtDNA from sperm to egg. So a family 1 stallion will have offspring that carry the mtDNA from the mares.
If what the researchers found is living in the mtDNA then all you would have to do is look at female families, weed out the errors, and bingo! Winners all the time.
Somehow it seems likely that folks would have noticed if every member of family 1 ran best at a mile and a half. And all family 12 were champion sprinters, and so on.
Do I think mtDNA is important? Yes, but my guess is that TB breeders aren't going to get put out of business any time soon.
If what the researchers found is living in the mtDNA then all you would have to do is look at female families, weed out the errors, and bingo! Winners all the time.
Somehow it seems likely that folks would have noticed if every member of family 1 ran best at a mile and a half. And all family 12 were champion sprinters, and so on.
Do I think mtDNA is important? Yes, but my guess is that TB breeders aren't going to get put out of business any time soon.
I read the article and thought "Wow how much does this guy actually know about horses."
It must sound wonderful to the big bucks crowd but horses aren't Holstein cows. I cannot believe that there is a single gene that separates a champion horse from an also ran. Anyone who has horses knows how tenuous it all is. It takes a coming together of training, soundness (often conformation), speed, heart and desire, meticulous care and often a big dollop of luck to get a single stakes win, much less a champion.
It must sound wonderful to the big bucks crowd but horses aren't Holstein cows. I cannot believe that there is a single gene that separates a champion horse from an also ran. Anyone who has horses knows how tenuous it all is. It takes a coming together of training, soundness (often conformation), speed, heart and desire, meticulous care and often a big dollop of luck to get a single stakes win, much less a champion.
Newest Study
I missed this thread and resurectted an old one in the general area, but thought I'd post this link to the original study which is available free online.
http://thoroughbredgenetics.com/
I believe they are thinking that they are heading towards aptitudinal classification somewhat like Roman's dosage classification. I think they mean speed as in 'short/sprinter' or as in 'opposed to stayer', not speed as in fast at any distance.
A three percent improvement over a mile can mean huge $$$$. The difference between a 1:33 and 1:36 miler is a big deal and really at the heart of it all. Another 3% gets you to 1:39 miler which is probably a dime a dozen territory..... They will never get down to that level of detail with all the other factors involved.... They will likely find some interesting things along the way, like the female family corrections etc., but for breeding better horses? I think we're still a ways away....
My two cents...
KH
http://thoroughbredgenetics.com/
I believe they are thinking that they are heading towards aptitudinal classification somewhat like Roman's dosage classification. I think they mean speed as in 'short/sprinter' or as in 'opposed to stayer', not speed as in fast at any distance.
A three percent improvement over a mile can mean huge $$$$. The difference between a 1:33 and 1:36 miler is a big deal and really at the heart of it all. Another 3% gets you to 1:39 miler which is probably a dime a dozen territory..... They will never get down to that level of detail with all the other factors involved.... They will likely find some interesting things along the way, like the female family corrections etc., but for breeding better horses? I think we're still a ways away....
My two cents...
KH
Sysonby, I agree with you but to identify the genetic material that seperates the average horse from the superior horse is a tremendous edge. If you know going into a breeding that you have eliminated slow genes and enhanced the passing of genes that produce physically superior athletes you've won half the battle.
I don't think there is any question that the genetic science now in it's infancy will impact the breeding game in a huge way.
I don't think there is any question that the genetic science now in it's infancy will impact the breeding game in a huge way.
-
summerhorse
- Breeder's Cup Winner
- Posts: 2178
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:40 am
- Location: Panama City, FL
- Contact:
I suspect that even knowing this and having it available people will still be breeding mediocre horses just because they can!
So much of racing success depends on luck, training, finding the RIGHT trainer/jockey/handling/etc. for THAT horse, luck, a happy horse, luck, and more luck. It would be nice if it was noticed that the MARE is as important as the stallion. Maybe that might open the door to ET and have more foals from better mares and put some of these loser producers out of the breeding biz (except as ET foal carriers).
So much of racing success depends on luck, training, finding the RIGHT trainer/jockey/handling/etc. for THAT horse, luck, a happy horse, luck, and more luck. It would be nice if it was noticed that the MARE is as important as the stallion. Maybe that might open the door to ET and have more foals from better mares and put some of these loser producers out of the breeding biz (except as ET foal carriers).
Every mighty oak was once an acorn that stood its ground.
Certainly environmental factors play an important part in the success or failure of a racehorse but let's be honest a good horse is a good horse is a good horse. Ask any trainer, jockey or owner-good stock make them or break them. there is an old adage in training; maybe a bit over simplified but it goes "my barber could train this horse"
-
summerhorse
- Breeder's Cup Winner
- Posts: 2178
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:40 am
- Location: Panama City, FL
- Contact:
I think you guys are misreading, or reading into that which is not there, that article.
They aren't talking about finding the genes that makes a champion different from an also ran. They are finding the genes that make one horse more apt to run 12 furlongs better than 6. Like Gallop said, it's the difference between breeding a 1:33 miler and a 1:35 miler. Not that that 1:33 miler is going to be a champion, just that he's going to be better than the 1:35.
In a sense, it's like old style bracket racing. You'll be able to see more clearly where a horses genetic aptitude lays.
and yes, in the grand scheme, I see this having little real impact on the industry because the testing would be cost prohibitive for most people. You'd be far better suited to DO YOU OWN RESEARCH on your mare's female family and breed accordingly.
and then pray your trainer doesn't screw you over.
They aren't talking about finding the genes that makes a champion different from an also ran. They are finding the genes that make one horse more apt to run 12 furlongs better than 6. Like Gallop said, it's the difference between breeding a 1:33 miler and a 1:35 miler. Not that that 1:33 miler is going to be a champion, just that he's going to be better than the 1:35.
In a sense, it's like old style bracket racing. You'll be able to see more clearly where a horses genetic aptitude lays.
and yes, in the grand scheme, I see this having little real impact on the industry because the testing would be cost prohibitive for most people. You'd be far better suited to DO YOU OWN RESEARCH on your mare's female family and breed accordingly.
and then pray your trainer doesn't screw you over.