Pedigree Query

I'm looking for opinions & want to hear the good, the bad & the ugly [but please be kind, whichever message you choose to deliver!]

I was reading "Racehorse Breeding Theories" & the chapter on Female Family Inbreeding caught my attention. It mentioned the Rasmussen Delta Pattern, but not a whole lot of explanation beyond, "Pedigrees demonstrating the [Delta pattern have] occurred in an extremely small fraction of the total Thoroughbred population. Nevertheless, over the years, they have presented themselves in a remarkable number of important pedigrees."

I found an interesting mare in my price range. She goes tail-female to a full sister of a pretty important Native Dancer-line stallion. She doesn't "fit' well with my current stallions-of-choice, but I've looked around & it would be pretty darned easy to find a GOOD stallion to create the Delta in question [enough selection to even be picky about the stallion I ultimately choose].

Here are the questions:

1. As to marketing [breeding-to-sell] -- is there enough interest in this particular breeding theory to bring a good price for a Delta foal from a mare-line that goes back to a full sister to a pretty popular stallion line?

2. As to breeding-to-race, is there enough evidence that this particular breeding theory tends toward winners to buy the mare, finish her racing career & later breed-to-race with the likelihood of good results?

3. What question should I have asked, but didn't know enough to even consider?

[And if I don't know enough to have given the information to get a good answer, please feel free to let me know what other information I need to provide.]

Having horses & foaling broodmares are a lifestyle; breeding for the TB track is a whole different thing entirely!

Thanks, in advance, for any help anyone can provide!

[Feel free to either post or PM, whichever you prefer. And thanks for all opinions.]

Heress...


A lot of info.

Here: http://www.chef-de-race.com/articles/ra ... factor.htm

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~lcables/rasmussen.htm

To question one, having the Delta pattern is not going to make the foal more marketable which is to say if the sire and dam aren't commercial a clever mating isn't going to make them commercial. Most people probably won't even notice.

"The Delta Pattern",
Owner/Breeder , August 1994

In this feature article, Faversham unleashes an uncommon, yet most auspicious form of inbreeding. The Delta Pattern is inbreeding a full brother and sister in tail-male and female line. A large list of individuals who demonstrated the pattern are enumerated and outlined. The predominant qualities of Deltas are shown to be Brilliance and a Superior ability as Producers. A genetic basis for the inbreeding formula is also provided.

and a TB times article: http://www.equicross.com/Inbreeding_to_ ... _Lines.htm

The article is very interesting reading from a breeder's perspective. 10+ % success rate regardless of siblings used in the study. Pretty good number considering that would be an A+++++ rating from werk if it were sire line to sire line.

There is a comment in the article that places this in the breeding to race category.

I have considered this myself with Round Table and Monarchy but it certainly would not be a commercial sale. 10% chance though>>>>

This was all very good information -- thank you.

Here are a few mares line bred on great mares
Davona Dale by Best TurnRoyal Entrance by Tim Tam 4x4 Bull Lea and 4x4 Two Bob through sisters Miz Clementine and Two Lea
Won New York Filly Triple Crown ,Kentucky Oaks, and Black Eyed Susan S.

My Charmer by Poker-Fair Charmer by Jet Action
4x4 Baby League and 4x4 War Admiral on sisters Striking and Busher
dam of Seattle Slew and Lomond

Relaxing by Buckpasser-Marking Time by To Market 4x4 La Troienne through Businesslike and Big Hurry
1981 Champion Older Mare 1989 Broodmare of The Year
dam of Easy Goer and Cadillacing

Weekend Surprise by Secretariat-Lassie Dear by Buckpasser 2x4 Somethingroyal through Secretariat and Sir Gaylord
dam of A.P. Indy, Summer Squall, and Honor Grades

Keith

If your going to sell at the market, you want to purchase bloodstock that has been a producer of quality offspring. If you have the finances to purchase bloodstock that has produced a prolific amount of GR SW, be it GR 1 Gr 2 or GR 3.

When you research the sales topper, you will notice that those individuals in their pedigree have produced those GR SW.

If you use individuals in your breeding program that are full sisters or brothers to Native Dancer and those TB havent produced anything of note, your not going to reap the harvest in the sales ring.

By purchasing TB that have been outstanding producers, you will be upgrading your bloodstock.

KBEquine wrote: 2. As to breeding-to-race, is there enough evidence that this particular breeding theory tends toward winners to buy the mare, finish her racing career & later breed-to-race with the likelihood of good results?

The "Delta Pattern" is thought to be a fairly strong variant of the Rasmussen Factor (Afternoon Deelites, Lando as examples). I've never seen specific numbers to support it's degree of success, mainly because the pattern appears infrequently in the population and tracking the number of incidences would be a pain. But let's say the pattern consistently yields 30% black-type from opportunity, which is a rather high ratio. That means you have a 30% chance of realizing "good results" incorporating the "Delta Pattern" and a 70% chance of realizing not so good results.

I doubt the "Delta Pattern" alone will give you much edge, and other factors need to be considered as well. But a mare from a solid female family that descends from a full sister of a leading sire could give you a jump start, since the family has proven to be productive anyway. If the mare is not from a particularly strong family and the full brother you're matching her to on the tail-male line was an obscure stallion, then you're not likely to gain anything.

Per an email exchange I had with Dr. Faversham --> The Delta Pattern does not have to appear in the same generation, nor within five generations.

I really appreciate all the input. The mare-line is to Raise You through a full-sister to Raise A Native, which is intriguing to me. While I like lots of the rest of her pedigree, it seems to produce winners, but not black-type horses.

So I see the answer to the "breed to sell" part of the question pretty clearly now.

Thanks for helping me educate myself & I also look forward to all additional comments.