how much is his stud fee ???
this horse is 1/2 to a grade 2 winner {high limit} unless the horse has one leg...............Further Adjustments Needed For 2009 Stud Fees
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
1657 B .F. Empire Maker -- Known Romance Rey and Marie Troncone 23,000
how much is his stud fee ??? this horse is 1/2 to a grade 2 winner {high limit} unless the horse has one leg...............
how much is his stud fee ???
this horse is 1/2 to a grade 2 winner {high limit} unless the horse has one leg...............
Last edited by reenci on Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
A great man cannot help himself," "He can see things that other men cannot see themselves, and his greatness lies in doing whatever is necessary to make his vision real
LB wrote:choltz wrote:st. louis kid wrote: How many yearlings were profitable so far in the Jan. sale(criteria I use is 2 times the stud fee plus 5,000 for costs)?
Such rules for defining profitability are mathematically suspect if not completely illogical. A yearling by a stud commanding a $150k stud fee that sells for $300k is thus deemed not profitable, despite a 200% return on investment less breeding, raising, selling cost over the course of 18 or less months. Yet a foal selling for $8k by a $1500 dollar stud is thus deemed profitable [($1.5k X 2) + $5k costs]. There's enough economic lunacy without perverse measures of profitability. My meager 2 cents worth.
Those profitability equations that are based on multiples of stud fee are also meant to take into account the purchase and upkeep price of the mare. A mare who is bred to a 150K stallion costs many many times more than one who is bred to a $1500 stallion does. Which is why you see the huge variation in the amount needed for profitability. It's not just the stud fee and the expenses on that foal.
The opportunity cost of the mare may certainly be argued, yet a blanket approach to include the 'purchase' of the mare is not a tenable position. For example, the capital outlay to buy Azeri and breed her to Tiznow certainly requires quite a different accounting than breeding a New Mexico-bred filly by Desert God to Tiznow. In such an instance, as countless others, 2 X the stud fee + standardized costs is simply not a valid measure, or comparison, of profitablility.
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st. louis kid
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Certainly not a perfect formula, but I will argue that if I breed to a $150,000 sire and sell the yearling for $250,000, this is probably not profitable. The mare I would be breeding should be worth at least 400,000-500,000, you have to figure in the depreciation of the mare. If she is young and does not produce a quality runner in 3 or 4 years, the value plummets. You have to figure in these costs when breeding.
On the other end of the spectrum, breeding to a 1,500 sire is not a commerically viable option. There is no proven sire for less than 5,000 stud fee available today in my humble opinion.
Hey, I didn't say we were going to stop racing, I said we are going to stop breeding horses. Funny you mention racing in Ontario, we were just talking a couple weeks ago about needing to get some horses there for the super purses. Places like there and Indiana, New Mexico, Louisiana, Pennsylvania, great opportunities to make some dough. We are going to buy in foal broodmares and foal in these places, or buy ready made weanling and yearling fillies and race them in these states.
Don't like to talk politics and mean no offense, but it amazes me how Bush still gets support. And I say this as a resident of Illinois, The state where our governors actually make the license plates!
On the other end of the spectrum, breeding to a 1,500 sire is not a commerically viable option. There is no proven sire for less than 5,000 stud fee available today in my humble opinion.
Hey, I didn't say we were going to stop racing, I said we are going to stop breeding horses. Funny you mention racing in Ontario, we were just talking a couple weeks ago about needing to get some horses there for the super purses. Places like there and Indiana, New Mexico, Louisiana, Pennsylvania, great opportunities to make some dough. We are going to buy in foal broodmares and foal in these places, or buy ready made weanling and yearling fillies and race them in these states.
Don't like to talk politics and mean no offense, but it amazes me how Bush still gets support. And I say this as a resident of Illinois, The state where our governors actually make the license plates!
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st. louis kid
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Would like to add, good example with Azeri. Breed her to say Storm Cat, stud fee $300,000. Sell the yearling for a 2 million. If she doesn't get a stakes horse in 3 or 4 years, her value can easily go down 500,000 to a million per year. Insurance is probably 100,000 to 200,000 a year for her at least. Have to figure these costs in.
st.louis kid wrote..............
"amazes me how Bush still gets support. And I say this as a resident of Illinois, The state where our governors actually make the license plates!"
he still gets support because he did his main job in an outstanding fashion......he has kept our country safe.....THATS HIS MAIN JOB. people in our country listen too much {follow like sheep} to the liberal press who have there own agenda.....i truly believe history will be kind to bush when years later you find out all the shit our current administration has stopped from happening..............dont for a minute think im a blind follower of bush....his do nothing attitude with the mexican border drives me freaking insane....and the bullshit going on with ramos and compion is another cluster fu*k.....you want to point fingers ? point them at the current do nothing congress and senate there all a bunch of losers and most of them will be in office for at least a decade....solution ? term limits, and it will never happen because the home folks like the pork these parisites bring back to there districts......why would anyone in there right mind spend millions on a job that only pays 100-150k......out of the goodness of there heart ? gimme a break
see,...im not a leech i dont want the government to "take care of me" ....thats for me to do ! i want them to protect the country ......oh and another thing i dont like that bush went along with ....freaking bailouts !!!!! if you suck at biz then you should fail. enough of my big mouth already . 
one last thing...the senate and house gave themselves a raise on the sneak so they would not have to vote on it . they couldnt have that now could they.....blood suckers.
"amazes me how Bush still gets support. And I say this as a resident of Illinois, The state where our governors actually make the license plates!"
he still gets support because he did his main job in an outstanding fashion......he has kept our country safe.....THATS HIS MAIN JOB. people in our country listen too much {follow like sheep} to the liberal press who have there own agenda.....i truly believe history will be kind to bush when years later you find out all the shit our current administration has stopped from happening..............dont for a minute think im a blind follower of bush....his do nothing attitude with the mexican border drives me freaking insane....and the bullshit going on with ramos and compion is another cluster fu*k.....you want to point fingers ? point them at the current do nothing congress and senate there all a bunch of losers and most of them will be in office for at least a decade....solution ? term limits, and it will never happen because the home folks like the pork these parisites bring back to there districts......why would anyone in there right mind spend millions on a job that only pays 100-150k......out of the goodness of there heart ? gimme a break
see,...im not a leech i dont want the government to "take care of me" ....thats for me to do ! i want them to protect the country ......oh and another thing i dont like that bush went along with ....freaking bailouts !!!!! if you suck at biz then you should fail. enough of my big mouth already . one last thing...the senate and house gave themselves a raise on the sneak so they would not have to vote on it . they couldnt have that now could they.....blood suckers.A great man cannot help himself," "He can see things that other men cannot see themselves, and his greatness lies in doing whatever is necessary to make his vision real
reenci wrote:st.louis kid wrote..............
"amazes me how Bush still gets support. And I say this as a resident of Illinois, The state where our governors actually make the license plates!"
he still gets support because he did his main job in an outstanding fashion......he has kept our country safe.....
Guess that assessment ignores the thousands of Americans that lost their lives on 9/11 and the thousands more that have lost their lives in the Iraq war.
UmmYeah wrote:reenci wrote:st.louis kid wrote..............
"amazes me how Bush still gets support. And I say this as a resident of Illinois, The state where our governors actually make the license plates!"
he still gets support because he did his main job in an outstanding fashion......he has kept our country safe.....
Guess that assessment ignores the thousands of Americans that lost their lives on 9/11 and the thousands more that have lost their lives in the Iraq war.
if you RECALL....political infighting was delaying his cabinet picks......as for iraq...WAR IS HELL thats why you try not to do it. how many useless UN resolutions would you like ......
you like rape rooms ? iraq was shooting at US plane's for YEARS ....short memory.......no one in there right mind likes war. 9/11 happened because previous administrations had screwed up rules in effect governing communication between agencys......would you rather fight terrorists over here or there
better to have the rats all in one place. all the pacifist crap will get you one of two things ........your throat cut, or your head cut off.
A great man cannot help himself," "He can see things that other men cannot see themselves, and his greatness lies in doing whatever is necessary to make his vision real
Let's keep the politics out of this. Even if you don't like Mr. Bush or the decisions he made at least respect the office and the fact that millions of Americans voted for him and they are likely to take an attack on him personally. What's done is done, we have a lot of problems to deal with know that won't get fixed by arguing about whether decisions 5 years ago were prudent. As they were discussing on CNBC yesterday, Congress spent a great deal of time over the past year worrying about steroids in sport instead of dealing with the regulatory problems on Wall Street. The steroid problem still exists, but somehow it doesn't seem so urgent anymore.
As for purses and breeders bonuses staying where they are, when unemployment hits 10% all the jurisdictions which are subsidizing horseracing with slot money will change the rules. The socialists will be handing out leaflets at the soup kitchens talking about how the gov't would rather subsidize their rich horsey friends than provide the unemployed a decent meal. Anybody who is relying on slot money as a secure part of their revenue stream is living in a fantasy world. Gov'ts everywhere are looking for more revenue and expenses to cut, horseracing is not a priority.
As for purses and breeders bonuses staying where they are, when unemployment hits 10% all the jurisdictions which are subsidizing horseracing with slot money will change the rules. The socialists will be handing out leaflets at the soup kitchens talking about how the gov't would rather subsidize their rich horsey friends than provide the unemployed a decent meal. Anybody who is relying on slot money as a secure part of their revenue stream is living in a fantasy world. Gov'ts everywhere are looking for more revenue and expenses to cut, horseracing is not a priority.
Incentives
I've offered quite a few incentives for Rocking Trick the 2009 breeding season. For Indiana breeders, I've offered a stud fee of $250 plus tax, if paid at the time of cover and I am named co-breeder of the resulting Indiana bred foal. For states other than KY, his fee is reduced to $1000 + tax, paid at time of cover, or $2000 + tax paid by September 1 of year bred with no co-breeder requirements.
I've donated seasons to states offering stallion stakes programs, so his 2010 crop will be eligible for the Georgia Stallion Stake Series, the Indiana Stallion Stakes, Minnesota, etc.
KY breeders are welcome to contact me to ask about specials for in state mares.
I've donated seasons to states offering stallion stakes programs, so his 2010 crop will be eligible for the Georgia Stallion Stake Series, the Indiana Stallion Stakes, Minnesota, etc.
KY breeders are welcome to contact me to ask about specials for in state mares.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
My bad for bringing up politics, that my poly sci degree rearing its ugly head. I sometimes forget I'm not talking with my friends and people on this site take eveything literally.
I think the farms who never budged in the first place are having a hard time adjusting their fees. We have always done discounts for multiples and large multiple bookers and we also are very good to repeat breeders. This year we are even offering a cash for live foal incentive for our new stallion (which had already been put in place by the owner before the whole "recession" doom and gloom started), which gets breeders between $1-5K cash when any approved mare drops a live foal, those who don't fit the criteria and are approved are free.
It's when people post or call and say you have to do this and you have to do that because of whatever reason (the economy is this years buzz reason) we are less inclined to make something work out. A phone call or visit to the office to discuss prices is a much better way towards getting favorable treatment when looking for a better deal or a break. Rather than demanding it
I think the farms who never budged in the first place are having a hard time adjusting their fees. We have always done discounts for multiples and large multiple bookers and we also are very good to repeat breeders. This year we are even offering a cash for live foal incentive for our new stallion (which had already been put in place by the owner before the whole "recession" doom and gloom started), which gets breeders between $1-5K cash when any approved mare drops a live foal, those who don't fit the criteria and are approved are free.
It's when people post or call and say you have to do this and you have to do that because of whatever reason (the economy is this years buzz reason) we are less inclined to make something work out. A phone call or visit to the office to discuss prices is a much better way towards getting favorable treatment when looking for a better deal or a break. Rather than demanding it
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reenci wrote:1657 B .F. Empire Maker -- Known Romance Rey and Marie Troncone 23,000
how much is his stud fee ???
High Limit had no appeal at stud and now he's a riding horse. I worked with Known Romance the mare and High limit as a baby and one of her other foals. High Limit was a fluke. There is no lasting commercial appeal for that mare.
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